Cashner signing

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, NCRaven said:

Or, Garcia preferred to sign with Toronto and not pitch in Camden Yards.  A lot of factors play into and it may not be as simple as you paint it.

It's usually much simpler than we all make it out to be. If they were going to go cheap, Garcia should have been one of their primary targets. I would have been a lot more comfortable with a two year deal for him then Cashner. Even if he didn't want to pitch here I seriously doubt he'd accept a 1 year deal over a 2 year deal. 

[gtown]

From Jason Martinez on Twitter:

 

Jason Martinez‏ @mlbdepthcharts 23m23 minutes ago

Correction: Garcia's deal is 1 yr, $10MM. He gets $8MM in '18 and has a $2MM buyout on a $10MM club option in '19.

[Number5]

2 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

Or, Garcia preferred to sign with Toronto and not pitch in Camden Yards.  A lot of factors play into and it may not be as simple as you paint it.

Pretty serious medical questions about Garcia.  He had thoracic outlet surgery.  There isn't a long list of pitchers successfully returning for long from that.  Pretty close to zero in fact.

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

According to Roch, Brady met with Cashner in November. Very interesting. Is Brady the GM in training now or what? 

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/02/orioles-sign-andrew-cashner-to-two-year-16-million-deal.html

[foxfield]

1 hour ago, weams said:

I personally feel the Orioles are broke. 

 

1 hour ago, weams said:

I think they ran out of funds. I do not think the Law Firm brings in money these days. 

 

1 hour ago, cimota said:

If they ran out of funds they could have saved 16 million by trading Machado for prospects.  

 

1 hour ago, weams said:

They will. 

If the Orioles are broke they are being mismanaged.  See this article on the Orioles in Forbes in April of 2017:

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/ 

The Orioles had an operating loss in 16 and I presume they did in 17 as well.  The operating loss was $2.1 million on revenues of $253M.  Of course the value of the franchise rose 18% to 1.175 Billion.  While the article that is attached mentions the legal battle over MASN, it does not give a value to MASN nor does it stipulate if it is counted in the valuation though I presume it is.  

Broke is not where the Orioles are..cash poor and needing to get to a lower expense number?  Yeah, seems most of baseball is working on that and the Orioles should too.

But we should not be using terms that will mislead folks here.  The Orioles are not broke.  Unless you know something... If they are?  Wouldn't that increase the odds that my hunch that they are preparing for sale is on point?

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, jamalshw said:

I find it really bizarre. It means either (a) the Orioles' budget is much lower than last year and we're near the top or (b) there's another larger deal in the works that we need extra up-front cash to pull off.

Given that this is the Orioles, i think Angelos just cut the payroll.

Working hypothesis:

1) Angelos realized that the window had closed when the pitching went south last year.   Not only that, but attendance has dropped steadily and season tickets are way down for this year.   Season tickets correlate to total ticket sales, so even if the team miraculously had a great season, attendance would still likely drop.   Walkup helps but only on good weather days and can't make up for the loss of many 81 game plan holders.

2) So Angelos dialled back the budget this year.   This is a demarcation year.   Manny, Britton, Jones, Showalter, Duquette, Brach -- all gone after this year.   He knows in his wrinkled, dusty heart, that we can't win.

3) But DD was instructed to give lip service to winning so that the fans wouldn't completely abandon ship in droves.   A tourniquet to stop the bleeding this year.   Remember, there's thousands of fans who don't follow it as closely as we do.  They'll see we signed Cashner, we have some young guys, and they'll be hopeful.   We're an echo chamber in here, reinforcing each other's despair about the future of the franchise.   We are aware of advanced stats that 80% of people who go to games and spend money are not.   There are plenty of O's fans who watch 100+ games a year, go to 20+, but they don't follow baseball the way we do.   They don't study the FIPs of new acquisitions, or even think about baseball much at all until Opening Day.   Then they give it their full attention.   They've probably never heard of Cashner but they'll read the paper tomorrow and like his ERA from last year, and they'll form their opinion of him watching him pitch starting in April.   The doom and gloom in our niche segment of the fanbase hasn't quite gotten out to all Oriole fandom.   They know we had a bad year and had sucky pitching and the suckiest of the pitchers are gone, and they're waiting to see how the replacements do.   So just by talking about trying to compete, DD is preventing some folks from ditching their season tickets.

4) Next year we bring in fresh new GM, manager, start a youth movement highlighted by Harvey, Sisco, Hays, Akin, Stewart, Santander, Mullins... try to market it as a completely new era.   You won't be able to hide the fact that one era has ended with all those guys leaving, so you'll have to admit you are building.   Hope to get a 1989-style youth infusion and start growing the fanbase back.

Does that explain the inexplicable offseason?  

[SteveA]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Remember the thread about what a bargain Trumbo was?   Deja Vu all over again.

The Trumbo deal was for three years, this is two (if it does go to 3 we'd probably be happy because it would mean Cashner has pitched well enough to stay in the rotation for two years.

The Trumbo deal also wound up blocking guys and limiting flexibility by locking down the DH position and forcing Mancini to left.   I don't think Cashner is blocking anybody.

[weams]

10 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

 

 

If the Orioles are broke they are being mismanaged.  See this article on the Orioles in Forbes in April of 2017:

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/ 

The Orioles had an operating loss in 16 and I presume they did in 17 as well.  The operating loss was $2.1 million on revenues of $253M.  Of course the value of the franchise rose 18% to 1.175 Billion.  While the article that is attached mentions the legal battle over MASN, it does not give a value to MASN nor does it stipulate if it is counted in the valuation though I presume it is.  

Broke is not where the Orioles are..cash poor and needing to get to a lower expense number?  Yeah, seems most of baseball is working on that and the Orioles should too.

But we should not be using terms that will mislead folks here.  The Orioles are not broke.  Unless you know something... If they are?  Wouldn't that increase the odds that my hunch that they are preparing for sale is on point?

My opinion is that they are not in good financial shape. And may be mismanaged. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

According to Roch, Brady met with Cashner in November. Very interesting. Is Brady the GM in training now or what? 

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/02/orioles-sign-andrew-cashner-to-two-year-16-million-deal.html

Sure looks like it.  Brady has access to the car keys now.  

[SteveA]

35 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

1) Andrew Cashner's ground ball percentage last year was 48.6%.

2) Jaime Garcia' ground ball percentage last year was 69.1%. 

3) It appears the Oriole's could have signed Garcia for roughly the same dollar amount to a one year deal. 

Those are the facts. Whoever is making the call on the FAs (Duqette, Brady, etc.) sure doesn't seem to know what they're doing. 

 

Is it possible that Garcia still holds a grudge against the Orioles for the Ritterpusch thing and would never have signed with us for that reason?   That would invalidate "Fact" #3.

[SteveA]

16 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

According to Roch, Brady met with Cashner in November. Very interesting. Is Brady the GM in training now or what? 

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2018/02/orioles-sign-andrew-cashner-to-two-year-16-million-deal.html

You just looking up at the wall for the first time and noticing the writing there?  

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, foxfield said:

 

 

 

If the Orioles are broke they are being mismanaged.  See this article on the Orioles in Forbes in April of 2017:

https://www.forbes.com/teams/baltimore-orioles/ 

The Orioles had an operating loss in 16 and I presume they did in 17 as well.  The operating loss was $2.1 million on revenues of $253M.  Of course the value of the franchise rose 18% to 1.175 Billion.  While the article that is attached mentions the legal battle over MASN, it does not give a value to MASN nor does it stipulate if it is counted in the valuation though I presume it is.  

Broke is not where the Orioles are..cash poor and needing to get to a lower expense number?  Yeah, seems most of baseball is working on that and the Orioles should too.

But we should not be using terms that will mislead folks here.  The Orioles are not broke.  Unless you know something... If they are?  Wouldn't that increase the odds that my hunch that they are preparing for sale is on point?

What if the team is supporting the law firm?

[Frobby]

26 minutes ago, gtown said:

From Jason Martinez on Twitter:

 

Jason Martinez‏ @mlbdepthcharts 23m23 minutes ago

Correction: Garcia's deal is 1 yr, $10MM. He gets $8MM in '18 and has a $2MM buyout on a $10MM club option in '19.

I’d rather have Garcia on that deal than Cashner on his, but we may not have had that choice.  

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

Brady hasn't been involved with many of the Orioles signings which is why I am surprised that he was involved with this one. I know he was involved with the Orioles resigning O'Day. This is the first time that I have heard of Brady being involved with a free agent who wasn't an Oriole. We have all heard rumblings of people being upset with Dan. I wonder if this proves that. It sure looks like Brady has been given more power inside the warehouse.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

Brady hasn't been involved with many of the Orioles signings which is why I am surprised that he was involved with this one. I know he was involved with the Orioles resigning O'Day. This is the first time that I have heard of Brady being involved with a free agent who wasn't an Oriole. We have all heard rumblings of people being upset with Dan. I wonder if this proves that. It sure looks like Brady has been given more power inside the warehouse.

I don’t think one meeting in November means that much.   I suspect Brady gets lots of assignments that we don’t hear about, just like we never heard of this one until today.    He may have met with lots of FA’s or agents, getting things teed up.