Grade the Gausman Deal

[wildbillhiccup]

10 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's were going to cut at least 60m off the payroll by just not re-signing their FAs.   Gausman has been a 2nd half starter for the last two years.  The only reason to believe that he would not be good again in the 2nd half is that he had no support from the O's defense, offense or pen this year. 

Doing a salary dump on Gausman at the deadline is probably one the stupidest thing that Dan has done if the O's are looking to rebuild in the shortest amount of time.  I think off season their would have been more teams bidding on him.  He would be a building block for most teams.

 

I'm not sure if there would have been a higher demand for him in the off season, but no doubt including O'Day muddied the waters and was the wrong move. Regardless of what you think of him, Gausman was arguably their second most valuable trade chip (behind Manny) and they basically gave him away for nothing. There's not doubt in mind they could have gotten a young SP good enough to plug into the rotation next season if they didn't treat it as a salary dump. That might have given them the flexibility to also trade Cobb or Cashner this off season. 

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Doing a salary dump on Gausman at the deadline is probably one the stupidest thing that Dan has done if the O's are looking to rebuild in the shortest amount of time.  I think off season their would have been more teams bidding on him.  He would be a building block for most teams.

I don’t see the Gausman trade as a pure salary dump by any means.   It’s by far the most questionable of our various trades.    But, I’ll await the performance of Encarnacion and the others before completely trashing it.    

[Redskins Rick]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's were going to cut at least 60m off the payroll by just not re-signing their FAs.   Gausman has been a 2nd half starter for the last two years.  The only reason to believe that he would not be good again in the 2nd half is that he had no support from the O's defense, offense or pen this year. 

Doing a salary dump on Gausman at the deadline is probably one the stupidest thing that Dan has done if the O's are looking to rebuild in the shortest amount of time.  I think off season their would have been more teams bidding on him.  He would be a building block for most teams.

 

as much as you complain about DD and Orioles, anything they do, you find fault with. Heck, when the Orioles were good, you was wanting a firesale.

I suspect that if Dan had waited until the off-season.

Then you would be crying that he would have got more, if he had traded him, mid-season.

Face it, Gausman was very talented, but at times, very inept and unable to locate the strike zone, which put a lot of balls in play, those that didnt clear the home run fence.. I doubt the 69 Orioles would have done that much more for him, given his issues.

[eddie83]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's were going to cut at least 60m off the payroll by just not re-signing their FAs.   Gausman has been a 2nd half starter for the last two years.  The only reason to believe that he would not be good again in the 2nd half is that he had no support from the O's defense, offense or pen this year. 

Doing a salary dump on Gausman at the deadline is probably one the stupidest thing that Dan has done if the O's are looking to rebuild in the shortest amount of time.  I think off season their would have been more teams bidding on him.  He would be a building block for most teams.

 

You think any GM would want to dump a player if they don’t have to?

[maybenxtyr]

26 minutes ago, wildcard said:

The O's were going to cut at least 60m off the payroll by just not re-signing their FAs.   Gausman has been a 2nd half starter for the last two years.  The only reason to believe that he would not be good again in the 2nd half is that he had no support from the O's defense, offense or pen this year. 

Doing a salary dump on Gausman at the deadline is probably one the stupidest thing that Dan has done if the O's are looking to rebuild in the shortest amount of time.  I think off season their would have been more teams bidding on him.  He would be a building block for most teams.

 

There is literally a whole thread about a directive to shed payroll.

Was it a terrible deal for a rebuilding team? Yes.

DD or any other GM will be obligated to follow whatever ownership decides though. There really isn't a need to keep beating an issue that can not be changed. I had a glimmer of hope that things were changing in Baltimore, but I really don't believe they have.

[wildbillhiccup]

23 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

There is literally a whole thread about a directive to shed payroll.

Was it a terrible deal for a rebuilding team? Yes.

DD or any other GM will be obligated to follow whatever ownership decides though. There really isn't a need to keep beating an issue that can not be changed. I had a glimmer of hope that things were changing in Baltimore, but I really don't believe they have.

I think we were all holding onto that glimmer of hope. The other trades,  the talk of organizational changes, the commitments to the international market, etc. all seemed like an organization finally recognizing what it was and what it needed to do to get better. And I full understand that it not make sense to maintain a large payroll roster in the lean years, but there are/were other ways to save money then giving away one of their key trade chips for pennies on the dollar. 

[Redskins Rick]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I think we were all holding onto that glimmer of hope. The other trades,  the talk of organizational changes, the commitments to the international market, etc. all seemed like an organization finally recognizing what it was and what it needed to do to get better. And I full understand that it not make sense to maintain a large payroll roster in the lean years, but there are/were other ways to save money then giving away one of their key trade chips for pennies on the dollar. 

Bill,

You had me, until you said key trade chips, and thats where we have to disagree to disagree.

[maybenxtyr]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I think we were all holding onto that glimmer of hope. The other trades,  the talk of organizational changes, the commitments to the international market, etc. all seemed like an organization finally recognizing what it was and what it needed to do to get better. And I full understand that it not make sense to maintain a large payroll roster in the lean years, but there are/were other ways to save money then giving away one of their key trade chips for pennies on the dollar. 

I agree...but it is too late now. There really isn't a lot left on this team with any value.

Giving Gausman away was totally an Angelos family move.

I'm skeptical about the International market thing. I was buying it at the time, and they may get into it in a couple of years...I just don't think they can be relevant in that market until possibly 2020.

[maybenxtyr]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Bill,

You had me, until you said key trade chips, and thats where we have to disagree to disagree.

What part do you not agree with? You don't believe Gausman was a "key" chip?

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

What part do you not agree with? You don't believe Gausman was a "key" chip?

No I dont agree. Gausman stock had fallen over the last couple of years, and he never was the TOR that he was hyped to be.

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

No I dont agree. Gausman stock had fallen over the last couple of years, and he never was the TOR that he was hyped to be.

Yeah, the numbers really don't support that claim. Gausman might have his ups and down, but at the end of the day he's been a very solid pitcher in what is arguably the most difficult division in baseball. And if he was so terrible, then why were so many teams interested in him? The Pirates...the Braves....etc.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, Redskins Rick said:

No I dont agree. Gausman stock had fallen over the last couple of years, and he never was the TOR that he was hyped to be.

He still had value to a team that had 50 more loses than wins. I don't blame DD. I just think it was short sighted to make a salary dumping to a valuable trade chip.

O'Day serves as an example that Chris Davis isn't going to be DFA'ed anytime soon...if ever. 

This team has maybe 5 players on the 25 man roster that should be here next year. They are no where near competitive, and will not be anytime soon. They absolutely should have maximized their return or waited until winter. I'm not trying to over estimate KG here, just saying that they didn't get their best return because of O'Day.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

He still had value to a team that had 50 more loses than wins. I don't blame DD. I just think it was short sighted to make a salary dumping to a valuable trade chip.

O'Day serves as an example that Chris Davis isn't going to be DFA'ed anytime soon...if ever. 

This team has maybe 5 players on the 25 man roster that should be here next year. They are no where near competitive, and will not be anytime soon. They absolutely should have maximized their return or waited until winter. I'm not trying to over estimate KG here, just saying that they didn't get their best return because of O'Day.

They probably didn't, but I think I am in the camp like @Frobby has said, we really need to wait, before we can really grade this trade.

DD haters are quick to jump on him and complain.

We also do not know what DD instructions were from the ownership either.

This team wasn't going anywhere with or without KG, anything they get in return that works out in the future will be helpful. IF

 

[nadecir]

26 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Face it, Gausman was very talented, but at times, very inept and unable to locate the strike zone, which put a lot of balls in play, those that didnt clear the home run fence.. I doubt the 69 Orioles would have done that much more for him, given his issues.

The Braves have Gausman pitching out of the stretch for the entire game now.  In the last two games, he's thrown 192 pitches - 133 for strikes with two good performances.

[Redskins Rick]

1 minute ago, nadecir said:

The Braves have Gausman pitching out of the stretch for the entire game now.  In the last two games, he's thrown 192 pitches - 133 for strikes with two good performances.

Maybe he needed better coaching like Jake did?

Maybe its easier to pitch in the NL, then the AL East.

We shall see. 2 games, is what most would call a short sample size.