Chris Davis 2019 and beyond

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

I'm wondering if they would have offered this same deal to Manny when they gave it to Davis if he would have taken it?   They probably would have needed to give him more money during the life of the contract, but the total dollars would seem to be in the ballpark.

He probably wouldn't have passed the Orioles physical.  

[atomic]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not sure, it appears to me sometimes that people feel like Buck is the #1 problem without a doubt.  

Agree that it's time for a new voice but I'd prefer to see a proper search done in the offseason.  But in regards to your statement about a new voice at the top, I agree there.   Without that, I expect them to botch a new manager search and pretty much everything else.

I hate this.  We are headed to the dark ages again and people are saying David Hess is the man and are whining about Mike Wright not getting starts over Chris Tillman which is somewhere near #87 on a list of things that need to be fixed.

Buck is the main reason guys aren't hustling, guys are playing out of position, Davis. plays every game, people steal when they shouldn't be, why pitchers are left into hit and immediately removed.  Why Davis never bunts.  Why the team's decision on whom pitches in relief are based on the save rule.   So yeah they probably would still be losing but they would be playing baseball the right way.  

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, atomic said:

You start fixing the problems you can.  Buck is a problem that is easily fixable.  When did I ever say Buck was the only problem on the team.  We have a team full of guys who either can't hit or who can't hit and can't field.  

Also I never said Wright was the answer either. I said he should have been released last season.  But I am guessing that we could have gotten someone off of waivers that could have done better than Tillman if not at least we would be paying them less. 

Well, we disagree there.  Buck is a problem, but the roster is a bigger one.  The FO, as a whole, is a bigger problem.  DD is going to go, and then there's Brady who looks to be a problem.  You are correct, you do start fixing the problems you can.  The problem is that the people doing the fixing are problems themselves.  Thus, nothing ever really gets fixed.

So what do you want, Buck fired tomorrow? An interim manager to manage out the string?  Then DD leaves, the Orioles spend all offseason with Brady running things acting as the defacto GM.  Maybe they hire a real GM, maybe they don't.  Brady, no matter what, will probably have a large say-so in who the next manager will be.  Angelos, still around pulling puppet strings, of course.

That's how I see it playing out.  Thats what I see happening this offseason.  I don't think it's a giant stretch to see all of that coming true.

Based on that, do you understand why I don't care of Buck is fired tomorrow or gets to manage the rest of the season?

[esmd]

It's really a no-win situation.

1.  Bench him and have a $23M/yr reserve who can only play one position and isn't an option to pinch hit

2.  Release him and eat over $90M

3.  Try and send him to the minors

I honestly don't know what I'd do at this point.  We all want them to at least get the #1 pick next year, so playing him the rest of this year, in a weird way, helps the team.  I know, I know.  I guess they figure give him the rest of this season to try and figure something, anything out to recover at least some of his productivity, and when he doesn't, than make a call this offseason.  This season is already lost, but for next year, I don't see how they can have him on the roster.

[osfan83]

Here is what is happening with the Davis situation this year:

-The O's owe him a lot of money over a lot of years.

-This year is lost no matter what you do.

-Since the year is lost, and they owe him a lot of money, they might as well play him everyday and HOPE he figures it out.

They literally have nothing to lose. If you are thinking about cutting the guy loose next year, and pay him 3 more years, better make damn sure he is completely done. Besides, taking him out of the lineup might result in more wins, and a worse draft position.  

[atomic]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, we disagree there.  Buck is a problem, but the roster is a bigger one.  The FO, as a whole, is a bigger problem.  DD is going to go, and then there's Brady who looks to be a problem.  You are correct, you do start fixing the problems you can.  The problem is that the people doing the fixing are problems themselves.  Thus, nothing ever really gets fixed.

So what do you want, Buck fired tomorrow? An interim manager to manage out the string?  Then DD leaves, the Orioles spend all offseason with Brady running things acting as the defacto GM.  Maybe they hire a real GM, maybe they don't.  Brady, no matter what, will probably have a large say-so in who the next manager will be.  Angelos, still around pulling puppet strings, of course.

 That's how I see it playing out.  Thats what I see happening this offseason.  I don't think it's a giant stretch to see all of that coming true.

Based on that, do you understand why I don't care of Buck is fired tomorrow or gets to manage the rest of the season?

I don't think Brady should be involved in the running of the club.  I want him gone as well.  Not only does he appear to make bad decisions on whom to sign he also appear to causing conflicts by requiring the team to keep guys who don't belong in the majors like Wright and before that Reimold. 

Seems like from what we have read in the press recently DD is getting more authority back.  I think an interim manager is a good idea as that lets the new GM hire whomever they want.  Probably get a better guy if you let the new GM clean house on coaches/manager and remove Brady from the picture.  

 

[Three Run Homer]

If his season ended today, he would have the worst OPS+ of any first baseman in baseball history with at least 205 PA in a single season.  

His quest for new depths of ignominy is one of the only reasons to keep paying attention to the O's.  

[ThomasTomasz]

Flat out the worst contract in the history of the four major sports right now.  However, I just can not believe that age has caught up to him this quickly.  As someone pointed out earlier, Ryan Howard didn't embarrass himself with the bat near the end, and if he were on a AL team at the end of his career, he would've been a positive WAR player.  There is something going on mentally or physically, or he just can't go without the Adderall "PED" or whatever we want to call it.  

Either way, there should be no way Davis gets regular ABs in the middle of the order.  I'm not for writing him off 100% yet, but if he starts the 2019 season not improved, I think it's about time to eat that salary and let him walk.  

[Moose Milligan]

30 minutes ago, atomic said:

I don't think Brady should be involved in the running of the club.  I want him gone as well.  Not only does he appear to make bad decisions on whom to sign he also appear to causing conflicts by requiring the team to keep guys who don't belong in the majors like Wright and before that Reimold. 

Seems like from what we have read in the press recently DD is getting more authority back.  I think an interim manager is a good idea as that lets the new GM hire whomever they want.  Probably get a better guy if you let the new GM clean house on coaches/manager and remove Brady from the picture.  

 

Yep, I don't want Brady around being involved in running the club, either.  

It is my fear that the new GM search will take forever in the offseason and that person will come in with most of the offseason behind him.  Angelos has screwed this franchise so hard, I don't think any good GM or manager candidate will want to be here.

 

[Three Run Homer]

32 minutes ago, osfan83 said:

Here is what is happening with the Davis situation this year:

-The O's owe him a lot of money over a lot of years.

-This year is lost no matter what you do.

-Since the year is lost, and they owe him a lot of money, they might as well play him everyday and HOPE he figures it out.

They literally have nothing to lose. If you are thinking about cutting the guy loose next year, and pay him 3 more years, better make damn sure he is completely done. Besides, taking him out of the lineup might result in more wins, and a worse draft position.  

The season is lost competitively, but by keeping Davis in the lineup, Buck is sending a message that the allocation of playing time depends only on salaries and loyalty, not on performance.  I think that message is harmful to team morale and contributes to a lackadaisical attitude among the young players who need to have a fire lit under their butts, like Trey Mancini, Jonathan Schoop and Chance Sisco.   I don't care if the O's win a single game for the rest of the season, but I want their young players to play better.  

I also want DJ Stewart or Ryan Mountcastle to have the opportunity to get playing time later in the season.  Chris Davis is blocking those players.  

[Frobby]

On 5/31/2018 at 2:59 PM, SteveA said:

I think we've seen a bit of improvement, regardless of the stats.

He has CLEARLY been trying to hit tot he opposite field on this homestand, and I believe he has 3 opposite field hits.   He wasn't doing that earlier in the season.

At this point, just let him continue to try for a sample size longer than 6 or 7 games and see where it leads to stats wise.   (But I would much rather see him doing it from the lower third of the order).

And enough with the talk on unrealistic stuff that keeps popping up on these threads:

   -- "send him down" -- he can't be sent down without his permission, and the Players' Union would be extremely unhappy if he gave it

   -- "renegotiate the contract" or "negotiate a buyout" -- not gonna happen either

He will get every penny of the $161 million.    And we might as well keep him this year because it's a lost cause anyway.   So the earliest we are going to DFA him would be after the season.

I don’t see any improvement at all. And he’s made attempts to go the opposite way throughout the season, not just recently.   

His strikeout rate was 33% in April, 39% in May, 47% so far in June.   

He hasn’t hit a home run in a month.   He hasn’t hit a double in three weeks.

How much more do we need to see?    I’d bury him deep on the bench.     He hurts the team every game he plays.

[spiritof66]

If I had responsibility for running the Orioles I would recognize that I had made a very bad investment decision. It's not easy to decide what to do with bad decisions like that, but before deciding that I'd want to make sure that I had all the relevant information I could get, without just sitting by and watching Davis try to do better for the rest of the season, or for seasons to come. In an attempt to do that, I would ask to meet with Davis and with Boras or a Boras representative.  Here's what I would tell them:

The Orioles have a big investment in Chris's future and are concerned about that investment and about Chris. We understand that this season has been rough on him as well as harmful to our team. I've talked to Buck, to Brady and to Duquette, and they (and the coaching staff) all agree this looks like more than just a batting slump that Chris can play his way through. It's important for the Orioles to try to figure out what is behind the big drop in Chris's performance. To do that, we would like for Chris and Brady to take a week or two, longer if necessary, away from the team, and spend it with Brady in an intensive effort to determine what is behind Chris's season-long inability to hit baseballs, and to consider whether there's a way to improve the situation. Chris would remain on the active roster. Brady would be free to retain and consult with doctors, coaches, psychologists, kinesiologists, or other specialists to try to determine what is behind Chris's season-long inability to hit baseballs, and to determine whether there's a way to improve the situation. The Orioles' preference is to start this process right away, but we are open to suggestions as to both how the process would work, who should be involved, and when it should take place. It's important to the Orioles that something along these lines take place and that it start fairly soon, before the Al-Star break. The team  doesn't know whether it can compel Chris to do something like this under the relevant contracts.  That's not the issue. What the Orioles want to know is whether Chris recognizes that his subpar performance and the team's large investment in  his future performance create a problem for us,  that everything that's been tried so far hasn't improved that performance, and that a more focused effort, involving outside help, might be useful. What do you think? Do you have any other ideas?  

I don't expect the Orioles to do anything like this.  I think it's far more likely that they take their usual approach to problems: let them fester and get worse, never acknowledging ownership's role in creating or ignoring the problem. Nor would I expect Davis and Boras to agree to anything like this, but if I were in charge I'd sure like to know what their attitude is toward Chris's dismal performance and what they would have to say about trying something new and different to fix it.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I don’t see any improvement at all. And he’s made attempts to go the opposite way throughout the season, not just recently.   

His strikeout rate was 33% in April, 39% in May, 47% so far in June.   

He hasn’t hit a home run in a month.   He hasn’t hit a double in three weeks.

How much more do we need to see?    I’d bury him deep on the bench.     He hurts the team every game he plays.

Couple thousand more at bats should do it.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

I think it's the money owed in his contract that is keeping him playing. 

That’s a terrible reason.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

That’s a terrible reason.    

Doesn't mean he's wrong.