Orioles trade Cashner to Red Sox

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, jsbearr said:

It could have been anyone. Palmer's criticisms in the past have been seen within the organization as being not constructive and inflammatory.  Maybe this is inaccurate, but it has been expressed to me that in the rare instances that he does talk to a pitcher that his advice is never something that can actually be applied.  That it is stuck in what worked in a previous era.  So, all that happens is that it is unhelpful and encourages fans to make bad situations worse.

I think that is the case for the vast majority of former players. 

[weams]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was it ever determined that it was Arrieta that made that comment?

Don't know, but it was reported to be.  I guess it could have been Guthrie but Roy could speak to that. 

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

For some reason I always pinned that one on Matusz.  Certainly could have been Jake.

I believe it was Matusz. That's my memory at least. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Well you just said ERA is meaningless.  So what difference does it make if FIP predicts future ERA?  

No I didn't, and FIP tracks the things that are in a pitcher's control, not the aspect of ERA that aren't and tend to vary.  FIP tells you how often a pitcher gives up walks and homers, and how often you strike out opponents.  Those are the most important things to know about a pitcher.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

So, Jim Palmer wasn't all that good?  Is this Jake Arrieta?

Palmer was very good, very durable, but his walk, strikeout, and homer rates were right around league averages.  And he played most of his career in front of epic defenses in a pitcher's park, in a pitcher-friendly era.  His time and place in baseball history was very good to him.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, NCRaven said:

So, Jim Palmer wasn't all that good?  Is this Jake Arrieta?

I always find it funny that people want to brag about how good Brooks, Belanger, Blair, Grich et al. were, but then don’t want to acknowledge the obvious conclusion that the Orioles’ pitchers would have had a significantly higher ERA if they’d had an average defense behind them.     Palmer himself has no problem acknowledging that fact.   Of course, he also gives himself credit (as he should, IMO) for adjusting his pitching to account for the great defense behind him.   

[atomic]

27 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

No I didn't, and FIP tracks the things that are in a pitcher's control, not the aspect of ERA that aren't and tend to vary.  FIP tells you how often a pitcher gives up walks and homers, and how often you strike out opponents.  Those are the most important things to know about a pitcher.

No it is a lazy stat.  These figures sometime co-relate with ERA but not all the time. I have called FIP a stat for simpletons. Just because FIP corelates sometimes with ERA doesn't mean it is good measure. 

[DrungoHazewood]

28 minutes ago, atomic said:

No it is a lazy stat.  These figures sometime co-relate with ERA but not all the time. I have called FIP a stat for simpletons. Just because FIP corelates sometimes with ERA doesn't mean it is good measure. 

Well, we all don't have your towering intellect.  You have to dumb it down for us.

[Mondo Trasho]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

No it is a lazy stat.  These figures sometime co-relate with ERA but not all the time. I have called FIP a stat for simpletons. Just because FIP corelates sometimes with ERA doesn't mean it is good measure. 

Why is ERA the end all, be all of statistics? I don't have any preference for any particular metric, but it seems like having a wide variety of stats to look at that try to account for various factors would be valuable. Not something to be sneered at.

[wildbillhiccup]

12 minutes ago, Mondo Trasho said:

Why is ERA the end all, be all of statistics? I don't have any preference for any particular metric, but it seems like having a wide variety of stats to look at that try to account for various factors would be valuable. Not something to be sneered at.

It's not. It's an antiquated stat that he's simply using because it helps his argument. What's next? Saying wins is a good gauge of a pitcher's worth? 

[Frobby]

Cashner debuts for the Red Sox tonight, then is scheduled to face the O’s on Sunday.   

[DirtyBird]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Cashner debuts for the Red Sox tonight, then is scheduled to face the O’s on Sunday.   

Prado had a pinch hit single in his first ab for the DSL Orioles 1.

[Frobby]

5 IP, 6 R (5 ER) for Cashner in his Red Sox debut.   Sox trail 6-4 in the 8th.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

5 IP, 6 R (5 ER) for Cashner in his Red Sox debut.   Sox trail 6-4 in the 8th.

Big Cashner fan tonight!

[hoosiers]

Maybe some other folks can chime in, but I have to think that if we are lifting two of the better prospects off of the BoSox two DSL teams that we are picking up two decent prospects.  Sure, I posted we would do better, but if the BoSox were "aggressive" as our GM says then I think we have to trust that we picked up good prospects if all we are getting is $1+M in salary relief.

It would be interesting to know if either Elias or Perez knew either of these guys before they chose to sign with the BoSox and/or whether our selecting these two reflects more current scouting or both.  I am surprised we could not pop an organizational top 10 from the BoSox, but maybe we preferred to go this route.