Not to be whiny, but can we just cut Richie Martin loose already?

[jerios55]

7 hours ago, spiritof66 said:

I agree completely. But (a) he just looks better -- not good, but better -- at the plate the last few weeks, and (b) I wouldn't have thought in April or May that he'd be capable of that for even a 40-PA stretch.

I didn't say, but I think it's pretty obvious, that having gone this far with Martin weighing down the bottom of the lineup, the Orioles shouldn't cut him loose but should keep him on the 25-man (or IL) the rest of this season and see what he can do at Norfolk next year.    

So while generally I agree, but if things are pointing towards no Villar next year, who will play SS next year if not Martin.  I don't see anyone else knocking down the door either.  I'm not sure he gets a year in Norfolk.   I think the sink or swim continues. 

[Enjoy Terror]

1 hour ago, jerios55 said:

So while generally I agree, but if things are pointing towards no Villar next year, who will play SS next year if not Martin.  I don't see anyone else knocking down the door either.  I'm not sure he gets a year in Norfolk.   I think the sink or swim continues. 

I don’t think our SS of next year or the future is currently on our roster. I would look at pending free agents to guess who our SS is going to be.

Elvis Andrus
Xander Bogaerts
Freddy Galvis
Didi Gregorius
Brock Holt
Jordy Mercer
Chris Owings

I don’t see the Sox and Yanks letting Didi or Xander go. Galvis, Mercer, and Andrus seem like options. Holt seems like a utility guy that could play everyday but not necessary full time SS. I don’t think Chris Owings is very good.

[BohKnowsBmore]

6 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think our SS of next year or the future is currently on our roster. I would look at pending free agents to guess who our SS is going to be.

Elvis Andrus
Xander Bogaerts
Freddy Galvis
Didi Gregorius
Brock Holt
Jordy Mercer
Chris Owings

I don’t see the Sox and Yanks letting Didi or Xander go. Galvis, Mercer, and Andrus seem like options. Holt seems like a utility guy that could play everyday but not necessary full time SS. I don’t think Chris Owings is very good.

Owings has been horrendous this season.  He has had some success in the past, though, and appears to have the defensive versatility Elias appears to like (at least among JAGs on the roster).  

Regarding your initial statement, I wouldn't be shocked to see another SS in the Rule V draft.  Actually, I would be willing to bet that Elias takes two guys in the Rule V again, a SS and a CF in some order based on who's unprotected then sees which one (if not both) can stick.

[Lucky_13]

11 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think our SS of next year or the future is currently on our roster. I would look at pending free agents to guess who our SS is going to be.

Elvis Andrus
Xander Bogaerts
Freddy Galvis
Didi Gregorius
Brock Holt
Jordy Mercer
Chris Owings

I don’t see the Sox and Yanks letting Didi or Xander go. Galvis, Mercer, and Andrus seem like options. Holt seems like a utility guy that could play everyday but not necessary full time SS. I don’t think Chris Owings is very good.

Unless one of those guys can be had on a minor league deal I don't think it will be any of them. 

I don't see them adding to the payroll until 2021 when the prospects start arriving. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Elias takes another rule 5  SS or swings a trade for a blocked minor leaguer.

[jerios55]

1 hour ago, Lucky_13 said:

Unless one of those guys can be had on a minor league deal I don't think it will be any of them. 

I don't see them adding to the payroll until 2021 when the prospects start arriving. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Elias takes another rule 5  SS or swings a trade for a blocked minor leaguer.

Yeah, we may try more rule V, dfa options and have a new SS, but Martin would theoretically still be ahead of that level pickup.  You play and see but I just think Martin is still likeliest.  I don't see a FA SS.  If we play a bit for 1 it would be Villar.  

Edit: pay not play villar 

[atomic]

8 hours ago, Sessh said:

For those of you curious about Billy's full telling of the story of this photo and the bat, check this out.

He wrote obscenity on bat and used it for the photo they took of him for the card set is his story.  

[ThomasTomasz]

13 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think our SS of next year or the future is currently on our roster. I would look at pending free agents to guess who our SS is going to be.

Elvis Andrus
Xander Bogaerts
Freddy Galvis
Didi Gregorius
Brock Holt
Jordy Mercer
Chris Owings

I don’t see the Sox and Yanks letting Didi or Xander go. Galvis, Mercer, and Andrus seem like options. Holt seems like a utility guy that could play everyday but not necessary full time SS. I don’t think Chris Owings is very good.

Andrus has an opt-out, and with how middling his offensive production is, I don't see him taking it.  He's going to stay with the Rangers.  Bogaerts already has a $100M plus extension with Boston, and Gregorius is a likely candidate for the QO.  Chris Owings still hasn't found a team.  Not a fan of Mercer or Holt, but Galvis would be a decent option. 

Also, Alberto has played short before, but the need isn't there with Martin and Villar.  It ultimately depends on how the team handles Villar, because he could be in play at SS if they retain him.  If not, expect a 1 year deal for a glove first player.  Galvis may have even played himself into a longer contract than that too.  

Martin can be the SS of the future.  But he needs a year in AAA to help find his bat.  It never came around until 2018, and that was due to them giving him an eye exam and he started to see the ball better. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

Andrus has an opt-out, and with how middling his offensive production is, I don't see him taking it.  He's going to stay with the Rangers.  Bogaerts already has a $100M plus extension with Boston, and Gregorius is a likely candidate for the QO.  Chris Owings still hasn't found a team.  Not a fan of Mercer or Holt, but Galvis would be a decent option. 

Also, Alberto has played short before, but the need isn't there with Martin and Villar.  It ultimately depends on how the team handles Villar, because he could be in play at SS if they retain him.  If not, expect a 1 year deal for a glove first player.  Galvis may have even played himself into a longer contract than that too.  

Martin can be the SS of the future.  But he needs a year in AAA to help find his bat.  It never came around until 2018, and that was due to them giving him an eye exam and he started to see the ball better. 

I don't think he can.

They just need to plug the gap and hope one of the young ones pan out.

[Camden_yardbird]

13 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I don’t think our SS of next year or the future is currently on our roster. I would look at pending free agents to guess who our SS is going to be.

Elvis Andrus
Xander Bogaerts
Freddy Galvis
Didi Gregorius
Brock Holt
Jordy Mercer
Chris Owings

I don’t see the Sox and Yanks letting Didi or Xander go. Galvis, Mercer, and Andrus seem like options. Holt seems like a utility guy that could play everyday but not necessary full time SS. I don’t think Chris Owings is very good.

I agree that I think a free agent shortstop is in the immediate future.  I dont think you realize how screwed the yankees and red sox are in relation to the cap.  The yankees need to add pitching and I fully expect them to go after Cole.  The Sox would like to keep Betts.  Either of those players is easily a $25 million a year player.  I dont see either retaining their current shortstops.

You dont want any part of Jordy Mercer.

There are also some teams out there with multiple SS prospects and I could see some shifting around of them.  The Pirates comes to mind.

[orioles22]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think he can.

They just need to plug the gap and hope one of the young ones pan out.

I can't see them giving up on him that fast after keeping him on the major league roster all year. You may be right in the long run, but I'd expect him to spend at least one year at Norfolk in hopes he learns to hit.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, orioles22 said:

I can't see them giving up on him that fast after keeping him on the major league roster all year. You may be right in the long run, but I'd expect him to spend at least one year at Norfolk in hopes he learns to hit.

I didn't say anything about giving up on him.  Might as well keep him as long as he's worth a spot on the 40.

[Legend_Of_Joey]

For all we know, they might open the shortstop tryouts to Mason McCoy, Chris Bostick, Zach Vincej, Richie Martin and Engelb Vielma in Spring Training and see what happens.

[Aristotelian]

Yikes.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/08/2018-rule-5-draft-update-2.html

Richie Martin, SS, Orioles (from Athletics): Martin currently stands alone among the most recent Rule 5 draftees, most of whom have been shipped back to their original organizations or shelved on the injured list. It hasn’t been pretty, as Martin has struck out in 29.2% of his 240 plate appearances while maintaining an ice-cold 81.0 mph average exit velocity. He carries paltry .191/.249/.300 batting line and grades out as a distinct negative at shortstop. He has simply been one of the worst players in baseball. But the rebuilding O’s can take the pain and obviously feel it’s worth the while for the toolsy 24-year-old.

[wildcard]

Martin has not been one of the worst players in baseball.  He has been one of the worst hitters in baseball.  His defense  is good unless you want to believe some of the advance defensive metrics.

[Aristotelian]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Martin has not been one of the worst players in baseball.  He has been one of the worst hitters in baseball.  His defense  is good unless you want to believe some of the advance defensive metrics.

Fangraphs has him as the second worst player in all of baseball by WAR. They have him with -2 DRS, so that is mostly coming from his offense.