The official "Do not call up Matt Wieters" thread

[glorydays]

There is no discernable difference in how Rob, myself, or you typically argue a point.

I respect your opinions even when I disagree…

There are always different ways to look at things, and I do not mind differing opinions… if I disagree, I might argue my point vehemently, and ask for the opposing view point to defend their pov… that does not equate to me not respecting others.

I'm sorry... I've been sitting on the sideline on this biting my tongue and can't anymore. When Tony argues his point it is done with respect and clarity. I have never heard or seen him attack someone's intelligence.

On the other hand, you and Rob both verbally abuse other posters on numerous occasions. You both seem to suffer a case of Napolean Complex. You both are so worried about being smarter than everyone else - or how you compare to who you deem the smarter posters on this board - that you simply attack those who you offer differing views.

And the truth is that you don't need to (attack other's intelligence) because you are both very smart and intuitive fans. We all just don't need to hear about it all the time.

[Moose Milligan]

Count me in as one of the posters who think the service clock argument is BS and taken way too seriously.

The clock will start sooner or later. Clearly Wieters has nothing left to prove in the minors...I used to be a fan of moving him to AAA ball, but I don't think that'll be a challenge for him if AA is so easy for him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Give him a month in Baltimore so he knows what he needs to work on this winter so he can have a productive camp in 09 and a killer season next summer.

We've got probably the best prospect, if not a top 3 overall prospect in the game and we're worried about a service clock? C'mon.

[Boy Howdy]

I'm sorry... I've been sitting on the sideline on this biting my tongue and can't anymore. When Tony argues his point it is done with respect and clarity. I have never heard or seen him attack someone's intelligence.

On the other hand, you and Rob both verbally abuse other posters on numerous occasions. You both seem to suffer a case of Napolean Complex. You both are so worried about being smarter than everyone else - or how you compare to who you deem the smarter posters on this board - that you simply attack those who you offer differing views.

And the truth is that you don't need to (attack other's intelligence) because you are both very smart and intuitive fans. We all just don't need to hear about it all the time.

Good post.

The guys you're referring to obviously have a lot of zeal and have a little knowledge but, as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Compare and contrast with Mr. Bill James himself, who's very open about the things that statistic analysis do not tell you with any certainty. Why, 60 Minutes just re-ran their interview with James and he admitted quite freely that things like clubhouse intangibles just aren't his area of expertise, and the Red Sox organization is lucky to employ people that know a heck of a lot more about it than he does.

The title of Earl Weaver's autobiography sticks in my mind a lot reading posts by these guys: "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts".

I try very hard not to put anybody on ignore, but I'm very close to taking that step due to the stench of arrogance and utter disrespect in too many of their posts recently. (Not that I expect anybody, least of all them, to care).

Reminds me of the old Jamaican proverb: "Empty barrels make the most noise"..

[El Gordo]

To each his own.... I've stated numerous times that OH has extremely highly intelligent discussion, and posters....

I've pointed out numerous times that as posters we are lucky to have a board where points can be debated intelligently.

I do not need to have my ego stroked, I am confident enough in my own skin.

I enjoy give and take.... and if there is something I feel strongly about... I'll make that point clear... and defend my pov..... if the opposing pov feels just as strong about their points, well round and round we will go...

You think that is about me needing to win.... it is not... it is about me believing in my pov and being prepared to defend it.... and while I believe each member is entitiled to believe in what ever they believe in... obviously I believe ultimately mine is correct, and I'm going to argue that.

I do not make it a habit to personally attack other posters...... I believe you can have a discussion of oppossing view points in respectful manner... in fact that is why I have stayed a member of OH as long as I have.

Having posted here for 7 plus years, I know the posting styles of most of the longer-term posters.... I know past arguements.... sometimes with them, I have a shorter-fuse...

The fact is over the past few years I have sat back and been overly passive... mostly just reading.... over the course of the 2008 season I have become engaged in discussion once again...

Frankly, I feel there are numerous posters that feel the need consistently challenge my pov..... thats fine they can do that... but it is hypocritical of those posters to state I don't allow them to have their pov, when they will not allow me to have mine.

The fact that you continually refer to defending your point of view as if a differing one were some kind of attack, and the fact that you feel you are beset with numerous posters who need to consistently challenge you, would tend to belie your statement, "I am confident enough in my own skin."

[Sports Guy]

I'm sorry... I've been sitting on the sideline on this biting my tongue and can't anymore. When Tony argues his point it is done with respect and clarity. I have never heard or seen him attack someone's intelligence.

On the other hand, you and Rob both verbally abuse other posters on numerous occasions. You both seem to suffer a case of Napolean Complex. You both are so worried about being smarter than everyone else - or how you compare to who you deem the smarter posters on this board - that you simply attack those who you offer differing views.

And the truth is that you don't need to (attack other's intelligence) because you are both very smart and intuitive fans. We all just don't need to hear about it all the time.

Verbally abuse? LOL

When do we verbally abuse anyone? You haven't seen me call anyone a name and trust me when I say, it takes great restraint for me not to.

Just because I aggressively argue my point and am blunt in what I have to say doesn't mean I am verbally abusing anyone.

[BaltimoreTerp]

The fact that you continually refer to defending your point of view as if a differing one were some kind of attack, and the fact that you feel you are beset with numerous posters who need to consistently challenge you, would tend to belie your statement, "I am confident enough in my own skin."

It is an attack. It may not be negative, but in order to convince someone of your opinion you have to show why their opinion is not correct.

It can be done respectfully, but that doesn't mean it is not an attack.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It's not bs. It's a legitimate argument for letting him stay down the extra 15days...If this was a video game then I think it's obvious to let him down there. But it's real life dealing with real people and perhaps our best prospect since Cal...With the organization's market and funds they shouldn't worry about it...But the argument and the circumstances surrounding it is certainly not BS.

Here is the problem with the service time argument: where does it stop?

I don't want to just make a pure slippery-slope argument, but if the point is to keep him down as long as possible (and as many people are arguing to not risk anything in a worthless year) why not just leave him there?

Wait until we are absolutely ready to compete, then bring him up and we'll have six full years to compete without worrying about his contract instead of bringing him up even next year and wasting his time building a team.

Wouldn't that make the most FINANCIAL sense?

[scOtt]

I've read most of this thread. I agree with a few points of the guys I disagree with, SG, Stoner and Terp. He may have been held back extra conservatively, although I think that was better for him. Two points I want to make:

1. Extra time before at Frederick, and extra time now at Bowie, gives Matt more experience with the pitchers he will be handling in Baltimore in 3 or 4 years. When we expect to really be contending.

2. Leaving him at Bowie now gives him experience that he CANNOT gain at B-mer this year... the experience of winning! The possibility of getting into the playoffs and winning a championship. Even if it is just a AA championship, that experience for Matt AND his future battery mates cannot be downplayed.

[BaltimoreTerp]

I've read most of this thread. I agree with a few points of the guys I disagree with, SG, Stoner and Terp. He may have been held back extra conservatively, although I think that was better for him. Two points I want to make:

1. Extra time before at Frederick, and extra time now at Bowie, gives Matt more experience with the pitchers he will be handling in Baltimore in 3 or 4 years. When we expect to really be contending.

That is a fair point. However, how many of them will realistically make it to Baltimore for a significant time?

There's a good chance he'll never work with most of those guys again.

2. Leaving him at Bowie now gives him experience that he CANNOT gain at B-mer this year... the experience of winning! The possibility of getting into the playoffs and winning a championship. Even if it is just a AA championship, that experience for Matt AND his future battery mates cannot be downplayed.

What relevance will winning the Eastern League championship have to winning the American League championship?

[Sports Guy]

If the Orioles brought up Wieters tomorrow, how many of you would actually object to it?

[mark_beckens]

If the Orioles brought up Wieters tomorrow, how many of you would actually object to it?

Every American league pitcher just raised his hand.

[orayole]

If the Orioles brought up Wieters tomorrow, how many of you would actually object to it?

I wouldn't object but I don't see a reason to bring him up now other than to show him off.

[Roll Tide]

If the Orioles brought up Wieters tomorrow, how many of you would actually object to it?

I would seriously object if it were to play once every three days & enter as a defensive replacement in the others.

[Mashed Potatoes]

If the Orioles brought up Wieters tomorrow, how many of you would actually object to it?

For all of my devils advocate playing here, as a fan, I would be overjoyed to see Wieters every day.

[Flosman]

I would seriously object if it were to play once every three days & enter as a defensive replacement in the others.

I think DT would actually need to be told to DH him three or more times a week. I get the feeling Ramon is DT's least favorite Oriole position player.