Reliever market

[Leitch]

I would actually take a Jim Miller type (relief pitcher) for Walker (especially Walker) or Bradford. Someone who may be having a bad year, but has done well up until this year...Heck, we might even be able to pry two relief "prospects" for a Walker or Bradford...your thoughts?

This would be a complete opposite way of looking at how we spent in the offseason, as we could build an inexpensive bullpen for the future.

Trade a major league reliever for a minor league reliever? At best a lateral move.

[hoosiers]

I'm surprised nobody has brought up Mike Timlin yet. The O's traded him in 2000, when he still had 2 1/2 years and a bunch of money left on his deal. In return, they got Chris Richard (who had a good half-season or so but never developed into much of anything) and a minor-league pitcher (Mark Nussbeck) who never got to the bigs.

Hmm. Actually, I don't know which side of the argument this supports.

If you are going to go back to 2000, then look at the BoSox acquiring Sprague for Tankersley - who became the Padres top prospect. Hmmm, Drungo says these type of trades don't happen. Yet, Urbina yielded multiple prospects a few years later.

I don't think these examples are too hard to come by.

[Sports Guy]

Is there a site that lists baseball trades????

Let's not forget what Majewski brought back last year(i know it wasn't just him but he was the main cog).

[Leitch]

Is there a site that lists baseball trades????

Let's not forget what Majewski brought back last year(i know it wasn't just him but he was the main cog).

If that trade happened in one of those Yahoo! leagues, the commissioner would have nixed it or whatever

[Mackus]

Trade a major league reliever for a minor league reliever? At best a lateral move.

If Jamie Walker had some magic elixir that prevented him from ever getting old and this minor league reliever demanded $4M a year to play for the Orioles, then it would be a lateral move.

We're not trying to win in '07 or really even in '08, '09 and beyond is what we shoot for, and Jamie Walker and Chad Bradford will help the Orioles on the field then just about as much as you and I will.

[DrungoHazewood]

We're just going to have to wait and see who's right. You all know my position - in today's market, and the contracts/age of Bradford, Millar, and Walker, they're just not going to get a whole lot.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I think 2007 isn't 1996 or 2000 or 2003. The trading deadline is going to be very anticlimactic.

[Leitch]

If Jamie Walker had some magic elixir that prevented him from ever getting old and this minor league reliever demanded $4M a year to play for the Orioles, then it would be a lateral move.

We're not trying to win in '07 or really even in '08, '09 and beyond is what we shoot for, and Jamie Walker and Chad Bradford will help the Orioles on the field then just about as much as you and I will.

Considering any minor league reliever you get for a Jaime Walker type is probably a Jim Miller or equivalent token 90+ MPH arm with control problems, iffy secondary stuff and inconsistent mechanics, there's a very good shot that they won't ever contribute to the Orioles on the field, so I stand corrected: At best, a salary dump

[Sports Guy]

We're just going to have to wait and see who's right. You all know my position - in today's market, and the contracts/age of Bradford, Millar, and Walker, they're just not going to get a whole lot.

Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I think 2007 isn't 1996 or 2000 or 2003. The trading deadline is going to be very anticlimactic.

Millar's age and contract are meaningless....His contract is very manageable, he is playing great and he is a good clubhouse/chemistry/blah blah blah guy.

The contracts of Bradford and Walker could be an issue....I think we have to kick some money in.

[Say O!]

Agree with Drungo here. The issue isn't that these guys are old OR are middle relievers. It's the contract. Two more years and >$6M left on contract is simply too much - GMs pinch pennies where they can, and you can bet middle relief is area #1.

All of the trade examples just cited are not good comps. The Reds/Nats deal - both those relievers were not owed much $$$, Urbina was short term rental, and Timlin, well the O's ate $$$ there.

Unless the O's are prepared to swallow some $$$, Bradford and Walker will not be dealt.

[Frobby]

Agree with Drungo here. The issue isn't that these guys are old OR are middle relievers. It's the contract. Two more years and >$6M left on contract is simply too much - GMs pinch pennies where they can, and you can bet middle relief is area #1.

All of the trade examples just cited are not good comps. The Reds/Nats deal - both those relievers were not owed much $$$, Urbina was short term rental, and Timlin, well the O's ate $$$ there.

Unless the O's are prepared to swallow some $$$, Bradford and Walker will not be dealt.

Well, I'm happy to keep Bradford and Walker if that's the case and we can't get significant prospects in return. They have performed well and I believe they will continue to do so in 2008-09. I'd rather trade Ray if he will bring a lot more in return.

[davearm]

If you are going to go back to 2000, then look at the BoSox acquiring Sprague for Tankersley - who became the Padres top prospect. Hmmm, Drungo says these type of trades don't happen. Yet, Urbina yielded multiple prospects a few years later.

I don't think these examples are too hard to come by.

Your counterexample is the BoSox acquiring Sprague for Tankersley?!?

Ed Sprague?

The thirdbaseman?

Back to the drawingboard for you. We're looking for non-closer relief pitchers with multiyear/multimillion deals here.

[Sports Guy]

Your counterexample is the BoSox acquiring Sprague for Tankersley?!?

Ed Sprague?

The thirdbaseman?

Back to the drawingboard for you. We're looking for non-closer relief pitchers with multiyear/multimillion deals here.

I am just guessing but he may have used this as an example for Millar.

[Mackus]

Millar's age and contract are meaningless....His contract is very manageable, he is playing great and he is a good clubhouse/chemistry/blah blah blah guy.

The contracts of Bradford and Walker could be an issue....I think we have to kick some money in.

From the article you posted in the trading Tejada thread:

Orioles first baseman Kevin Millar, batting .386 with 15 RBIs in his last 22 games, could fit for the Yankees, Twins, Braves, but might not be moved until after the July 31 non-waiver deadline. The Yankees and Twins are examining multiple options, and the Braves seemingly would prefer Julio Franco as a right-handed hitter off the bench. Millar, who turns 36 on Sept. 24, likely would clear waivers -- he is earning $2.75 million with a $2.75 million option for 2008 that becomes guaranteed if he makes 475 plate appearances. He currently has 283.

If he makes it through waivers, its a sign that his contract is deemed too big to just take, yet alone give up talent for.

I don't neccesarily think he'd make it through waivers, but there is a chance, and even that chance means we're probably all thinking he's worth more than he really is.

I'd still move him, Walker, and Bradford for pretty much whatever we could. I think Millar does have the most value, and could possible net a fringe top 10 guy from somebody, maybe a Chris Vinyard type guy, which I'd do. But I don't think we'll be getting anybody who we'd expect to eventually make an impact. We'd be getting guys that we hope could, guys with a 50/50 chance of becoming MLB role players.

[Sports Guy]

Worse part is this conersation is moot because the Orioles probably won't shop these guys.

[davearm]

I am just guessing but he may have used this as an example for Millar.

I hadn't thought of that. I sure hope you're right.