Reliever market

[Sports Guy]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07152007/sports/boras_taking_a_rod_into_tratosphere_sports_joel_sherman.htm

Right now, the relief market is the one being discussed most by teams, but clubs are still finding the asking prices for Texas’ Eric Gagne and Akinori Otsuka, Kansas City’s Octavio Dotel, and Washington’s Chad Cordero and Jon Rauch too high. One AL executive said he thought whichever team between the Tigers and Indians that obtained Gagne would win the division. But Indians officials are insisting they are committed to Joe Borowski as their closer, and are looking for set-up help and do not believe Gagne, who has no-trade protections, would accept a deal to a place in which he would not close

Gotta put feelers out there for Bradford, Ray and Walker.

[Moose Milligan]

With the way Ray has thrown lately, he might be able to fetch a nice piece....

[Sports Guy]

I honestly believe the Orioles wouldn't even think about trading Ray but i think that is a huge mistake.

BB also has said that Bradford and Walker are not likely to be dealt, at least as of now.

That is a huge mistake as well.

[Moose Milligan]

I honestly believe the Orioles wouldn't even think about trading Ray but i think that is a huge mistake.

BB also has said that Bradford and Walker are not likely to be dealt, at least as of now.

That is a huge mistake as well.

Cause if they do, they're admitting they were wrong this offseason. And the O's would rather be bad than be wrong.

[Sports Guy]

Cause if they do, they're admitting they were wrong this offseason. And the O's would rather be bad than be wrong.

MacPhail already basically said they were wrong.

And i am not sure this is admitting that they were wrong...Just that they have marketable assets that may be worth more in trade than they are to the team.

[Say O!]

Cause if they do, they're admitting they were wrong this offseason. And the O's would rather be bad than be wrong.

I'm not sure this is the case. I think one argument the FO used for acquiring "good" middle relievers was that they would always be marketable. Trading would be available if other options presented themselves (like Hoey, Doyne).

However, i think the above argument is bunk. Teams do not want to acquire contracts - which is why guys like gagne, dotel, etc. are more liquid - they don't have multi-year contracts. Trading for one year obligations is much more preferable to GMs.

Unless the FO is willing to eat $$ to move either bradford or walker - I just don't see a trade as a possibility. Trading either one is likely a more difficult challenge than getting the stadium authority to pony up for a new scoreboard.

[hoosiers]

Cause if they do, they're admitting they were wrong this offseason. And the O's would rather be bad than be wrong.

We signed something this offseason which is currently in great demand so I find the negative conclusion above to be a real leap in logic.

[Moose Milligan]

We signed something this offseason which is currently in great demand so I find the negative conclusion above to be a real leap in logic.

Mmm, no...I meant that if the O's trade off the relievers they acquired this year, they'll essentially say "we were wrong about these guys, we spent too much money on them..."

We'll see. Gotta think the FO will kick itself for spending a lot of money on these guys when Hoey and Doyne are in the minors and could probably be doing a good job...

[hoosiers]

Mmm, no...I meant that if the O's trade off the relievers they acquired this year, they'll essentially say "we were wrong about these guys, we spent too much money on them..."

We'll see. Gotta think the FO will kick itself for spending a lot of money on these guys when Hoey and Doyne are in the minors and could probably be doing a good job...

I guess we'll have to see exactly what we receive in return for these guys.

We didn't give up any draft picks for Walker - so if we rent him for half a season and deal him for a player inside another organization's top 10 prospects, I'd like to think our FO improved the overall talent in the organization versus having never signed Walker and starting Hoey in the majors on Opening Day.

We did give up draft picks for Bradford and Baez, so we'll see if the value we receive in return is in excess of the value of the picks. Of course, if we give up the $ for Arrietta, it would be as if the FO had made up for not having those picks.

I don't really see why anyone has "gotta think the FO will kick itself" based on the above.

[bigbird]

I guess we'll have to see exactly what we receive in return for these guys.

We didn't give up any draft picks for Walker - so if we rent him for half a season and deal him for a player inside another organization's top 10 prospects, I'd like to think our FO improved the overall talent in the organization versus having never signed Walker and starting Hoey in the majors on Opening Day.

We did give up draft picks for Bradford and Baez, so we'll see if the value we receive in return is in excess of the value of the picks. Of course, if we give up the $ for Arrietta, it would be as if the FO had made up for not having those picks.

I don't really see why anyone has "gotta think the FO will kick itself" based on the above.

Walker and Bradford will both probably end up with an era around 2.50. If traded we'll also need to replace them next offseason. I can't see them going with a young starting staff supported by a young pen.

[broberts]

Walker and Bradford will both probably end up with an era around 2.50. If traded we'll also need to replace them next offseason. I can't see them going with a young starting staff supported by a young pen.

I can deal with that. Signing releivers in the offseason then trading at the deadline for prospects might help this team get the talent it needs. Sign more FA releivers next offseason then if we arent good just trade them for more prospects. Except the only problem is having guys like Baez that just suck after getting a big contract and no one will trade for them.

[clapdiddy]

Walker and Bradford will both probably end up with an era around 2.50. If traded we'll also need to replace them next offseason. I can't see them going with a young starting staff supported by a young pen.

I think we could replace either of them pretty easily. Doyne and/or Hoey should be ready next season to take Bradford's spot. We should be able to find a lefty to replace Walker somewhere.

I don't want to trade these guys for nothing, but if we were offered a team's 5 - 10 type prospect for one of them, you need to consider it. We are woefully short in the position player department.

[NewMarketSean]

Cause if they do, they're admitting they were wrong this offseason. And the O's would rather be bad than be wrong.

Agreed 100%.

Seeing whether MacPhail will trade these bullpen guys will be a deciding factor on whether this mentality has changed or not.

[DrungoHazewood]

Walker and Bradford will both probably end up with an era around 2.50.

That's a bit of a bold assumption. If either of them have a random five-run, 1/3 of a inning appearance their ERAs would be over 4.00. When you pitch 60 innings it doesn't take much to ruin your year's totals, and they're both on pace for about 80 games/60 innings.

I'd really like to see that reversed. 60 games, 80 innings.

[Mackus]

Walker and Bradford will both probably end up with an era around 2.50. If traded we'll also need to replace them next offseason. I can't see them going with a young starting staff supported by a young pen.

Who cares how they pitch this season? Whats important is how they would pitch next season versus what we could get in return for them and the added payroll flexibility over the next two seasons.

I think its almost a lock that we could spend $16M over the next two seasons more wisely than Walker in his age 36-37 seasons and Bradford in his age 33-34 seasons. That doesn't even include whatever talent we could get in return for them.