Orioles Exhibit Against Nationals and lose 4-2

[wildcard]

Hess just turned 27.  He has already been optioned this season.   I think the O's are trying to transition him from a starter to a reliever.   It would not be surprising to see him DFA'd at some point this season if Elias finds a waive claim he likes better.

There are 8 starters ahead of him:  Means, Cobb, LeBlanc, Wojo, Milone, Kohl Stewart, Eshelman and Valdez with two more likely to pass him in the near future in Kremer and Akin.

[Redskins Rick]

8 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Yes there is.  It's the location of our camp for guys who are on the 60an roster but not on the major league roster.  There are already 13 guys assigned there and reporting and working out daily under the supervision of the organization.

My apologies and ty

[Tony-OH]

11 hours ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Eh, that was the knock on Chris Tillman before he became a top five Orioles pitcher of the last 30 years.

Huh? Tillman never possessed a great horizontal movement fastball but he had about average movement and I don't recall anyone saying he had a straight fastball when he was pitching well. We only have four years of baseball savant info on Tillman (2015-2018). In 2015 and 2016 he had slightly above average movement and that fell off significantly in 2017 and 2018 until he was around Hess's area with -53% movement of an average MLB fastball.

 

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

First, I don’t think the comparison with Tillman is apt.    His secondary stuff was way better than Hess’s and he was a much more highly regarded prospect (ranked no. 22 prospect by BA and 16 by BP).    It just took him some time to figure out how to pitch in the majors.    

But second, I don’t think Hess is any less of a prospect than many of the pitchers the Orioles are carrying right now.    He probably won’t start this season in the majors, but we’ll see who performs decently over the next 2.5 months.     There’s a lot of cannon fodder to sort through.   Hess was looking pretty good in spring training and I’m not going to write off the chance that he made offseason improvements just because he had a rough outing in his first game action in four months.    
 

I don't think anyone should "count him out" because of yesterday's outing. While I agree with you that we are going to have a lot of cannon fodder in the bullpen this year, I just have my doubts that Hess will ever be able to have sustained success because of how straight his fastball is and the fact his command has never been consistently good. Hess will show you a plus slider at times and even his curveball and change can be solid at times,but he's never been consistent with anything. 

I like that that they are trying to make him a reliever but with all the data and information they have, they have to know his fastball needs work. Saying all that, I have zero issues with giving him some chances this year to see if maybe something they've worked on will improve that movement, but he'll still need to be able to command his stuff more consistently. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Who is the current Oriole most likely to be called Rabbit?  Mullins? 

Mullins had some nice PAs against the Phillies including a nice one from the right side in which he was called out on strikes by a questionable 3-2 call. He's a guy that it would have been nice to see how he did in AAA this year to see if the "offseason reworked swing" plays. I like Mullins overall as he's a hard worker, a guy who can go get it in the outfield,  some pop, and has game changing speed, but he needs PAs. I can see the Orioles giving him an opportunity this year because he's a good bench guy to have because of his speed and pop, but he'll need to show more with the bat.

[Philip]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

First, I don’t think the comparison with Tillman is apt.    His secondary stuff was way better than Hess’s and he was a much more highly regarded prospect (ranked no. 22 prospect by BA and 16 by BP).    It just took him some time to figure out how to pitch in the majors.    

But second, I don’t think Hess is any less of a prospect than many of the pitchers the Orioles are carrying right now.    He probably won’t start this season in the majors, but we’ll see who performs decently over the next 2.5 months.     There’s a lot of cannon fodder to sort through.   Hess was looking pretty good in spring training and I’m not going to write off the chance that he made offseason improvements just because he had a rough outing in his first game action in four months.    
 

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but he was just so awful last year, And so consistently awful. His problem is the same every time. His fastball is too easily hit out of the park. I just don’t see anything on which to hang a hope.

Remember, true improvement is not incremental, but transformative. Whether yesterday was good or bad, it seems that he has not changed. He’s still the same terrible pitcher who might have a good game, but remains a terrible pitcher. Mike Wright had a wonderful stretch right at the beginning, but he was terrible, and we gave him ~three years of opportunities to show otherwise.

[atomic]

9 hours ago, Philip said:

Ok, it’s the knock on Hess now. We can stop knocking when he becomes a top-five guy. But until then, I would be very happy if someone else deserved that spot. 

He might be a top five guy on a KBO team but I don't think he is in the MLB.  Well other than the Orioles top 5. Not on any other teams top 5. 

[atomic]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Hess just turned 27.  He has already been optioned this season.   I think the O's are trying to transition him from a starter to a reliever.   It would not be surprising to see him DFA'd at some point this season if Elias finds a waive claim he likes better.

There are 8 starters ahead of him:  Means, Cobb, LeBlanc, Wojo, Milone, Kohl Stewart, Eshelman and Valdez with two more likely to pass him in the near future in Kremer and Akin.

When there are 8 starters a head of you on the Orioles Waiver Claim staff it is time to pick up the Rosetta Stone for Korean. 

[Camden_yardbird]

5 minutes ago, Philip said:

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but he was just so awful last year, And so consistently awful. His problem is the same every time. His fastball is too easily hit out of the park. I just don’t see anything on which to hang a hope.

Remember, true improvement is not incremental, but transformative. Whether yesterday was good or bad, it seems that he has not changed. He’s still the same terrible pitcher who might have a good game, but remains a terrible pitcher. Mike Wright had a wonderful stretch right at the beginning, but he was terrible, and we gave him ~three years of opportunities to show otherwise.

The nice thing is the Orioles are in a place where they can let guys exhaust these opportunities.  They have kept him around for something so maybe we will see it, and maybe we wont, in which case that will probably be it.

[Philip]

55 minutes ago, atomic said:

He might be a top five guy on a KBO team but I don't think he is in the MLB.  Well other than the Orioles top 5. Not on any other teams top 5. 

Is he currently in the Orioles top five? Or did you leave out a zero?

[Philip]

50 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

The nice thing is the Orioles are in a place where they can let guys exhaust these opportunities.  They have kept him around for something so maybe we will see it, and maybe we wont, in which case that will probably be it.

 Oh I do not disagree with that at all, and if there’s nobody better, sure why not, it will just be hard to watch. The reason I think his time is up, is because he is so bad, and the other guys who have so much more potential, even if they haven’t shown it yet, that I don’t see any reason to keep him around, although he’s a nice guy, and apparently quite well educated, so he’s probably a fun dinner guest. 

[LTO's]

7 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think Hess is any less of a prospect than many of the pitchers the Orioles are carrying right now.

Whole-heartedly disagree with this. He's for sure the worst of the bunch and I'm not sure it's even remotely close. 

[Enjoy Terror]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Huh? Tillman never possessed a great horizontal movement fastball but he had about average movement and I don't recall anyone saying he had a straight fastball when he was pitching well.

Well of course not. "Pitching well" and having movement on your fastball are probably related. But plenty of people on this site have commented on Chris Tillman's fastball early in his career and even up to his break out 2012. Hess isn't the prospect that Tillman was, but I find it bizarre that you don't think Tillman having a straight fastball was ever once brought up on this site and elsewhere?

 

https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2010/02/should-os-fans-have-concerns-about-chris-tillman.html

"Tillman’s fastball and curve sure look Major League quality. Some feel he needs better command and more fastball movement."

 

[Tony-OH]

16 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Well of course not. "Pitching well" and having movement on your fastball are probably related. But plenty of people on this site have commented on Chris Tillman's fastball early in his career and even up to his break out 2012. Hess isn't the prospect that Tillman was, but I find it bizarre that you don't think Tillman having a straight fastball was ever once brought up on this site and elsewhere?

 

 

 

I was not talking about people on this site. We have people who have said Gausman's fast ball was straight and it had extreme movement. Fastball movement was pretty subjective in the past, but now with baseball savant info, we now how definitive information on the movement of the pitches. No more subjective TV scouting needed.

[makoman]

50 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Well of course not. "Pitching well" and having movement on your fastball are probably related. But plenty of people on this site have commented on Chris Tillman's fastball early in his career and even up to his break out 2012. Hess isn't the prospect that Tillman was, but I find it bizarre that you don't think Tillman having a straight fastball was ever once brought up on this site and elsewhere?

 

 

 

I'm really happy that you reminded me of The Great Schedule Wallpaper Fiasco.