Cole Sulser: not closer material

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok .. but there are many effective relievers that didn’t do well as closers. If it’s not being able to handle constant high leverage spots what do you blame it on?

I think more can than can't.

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

The wind.

Or the stadium dimensions 

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think more can than can't.

I think stuff dictates if one can excel at closing. Strikeouts are the equalizer in high leverage situations 

 

here is a good article....some guys had good initial success but hit the wall.

https://www.thesportster.com/baseball/top-15-worst-closing-pitchers-in-mlb-history/

[Sports Guy]

DFA time

[Redskins Rick]

11 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Or the stadium dimensions 

They put that dang Hotel up and just changed everything.

 

[Redskins Rick]

13 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think more can than can't.

If that was true, there would not be teams lacking a closer and guys in the role that had no business in the role.

Look south to the Nats, it was their Achilles heel for several years.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

If that was true, there would not be teams lacking a closer and guys in the role that had no business in the role.

Look south to the Nats, it was their Achilles heel for several years.

How many "effective" guys have they had?

I emphasized the key word for you.

[CarrRun49]

9 hours ago, linedrive said:

I like Sulser, but never agreed with committing to him as a closer... at least not until he established himself and truly earned it. I don't think that ever happened.

In times like this, I'd like to see a bullpen by committee. Using the best pitcher available in any given situation seems like the most logical direction to go. When the entire staff is young and questionable, there's no need to force anyone into any given role. Put them in situations where they'll most likely succeed, learn and improve. I'd think situational pitching would be the best thing for this club.

I realize a closer an expectation in today's game, but that may not always lead to more wins, which should be the ultimate goal. I'm not so concerned about wins this season, but in a year or two, let's go for wins, not saves.

Aren't all bullpens by committee?

[Redskins Rick]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

How many "effective" guys have they had?

I emphasized the key word for you.

They might have more than 1 WS trophy if any of the guys they kept putting up there, could be a solid closer.

Of course, you knew that.

 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

They might have more than 1 WS trophy if any of the guys they kept putting up there, could be a solid closer.

Of course, you knew that.

 

Sure, they had guys that weren't "effective".  It isn't surprising they weren't effective at closing.

You started off with the idea that a significant amount of effective set up men couldn't close.  You appear to now be saying that poor relief pitchers can't close.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok .. but there are many effective relievers that didn’t do well as closers. If it’s not being able to handle constant high leverage spots what do you blame it on?

Not being a very good pitcher?  I'd like to see a list of good relievers who had much worse performances in high leverage situations.

I'll give you Mike Timlin.  Now you show me a bunch more.

[DrungoHazewood]

34 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

Aren't all bullpens by committee?

It's a misnomer.  Probably meant either closer by committee, or the idea that no reliever has a set role. 

There are a few problems with the latter.  Primarily related to not being able to see the future.  You may well end up in a fair number of situations where you bring the best reliever into a fairly high leverage situation in the 6th, but are left with your 5th-best guy to cover an even higher leverage situation in the 9th.  And there are more high leverage situations in the 9th than the 6th.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Ok .. but there are many effective relievers that didn’t do well as closers. If it’s not being able to handle constant high leverage spots what do you blame it on?

Depends on the case.   As I mentioned in another post, one big difficulty as a closer is you can’t avoid bad platoon match-ups to the degree you can in the earlier innings.    But yes, it appears some guys just don’t handle the extra pressure well.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Not being a very good pitcher?  I'd like to see a list of good relievers who had much worse performances in high leverage situations.

I'll give you Mike Timlin.  Now you show me a bunch more.

I’d bet Gregg is on that list ... at least here. 

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’d bet Gregg is on that list ... at least here. 

In his career Kevin Gregg had a .701 OPS against him in high leverage situations, a .712 in low.

In 2011 with the Orioles he had a .751 in high leverage, .739 in low.  Essentially the same, both in 122 PAs.

In 2012 he had a .717 in high leverage, a .848 in low, but something like 90% of his appearances were in low leverage situations.