What to do at SS?

[Roll Tide]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Small sample size.  And Coors, in 2017.  

Yeah ... But I think they are pretty close on offensive and Valaika is considerably better on defense. Their career minor league OPS was Val .759 to Nun .788 .... An before you say it both have more than 2000ABs in the minors and considerable time in the PCL.

 

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I really don't care how the SS hits. I want a plus (if not plus, plus) defender at SS to help our young pitchers. I was really looking forward to Iggy and SS and Sanchez at 2B. I am okay with the trade because it's the right long-term move. But I want great defense up the middle.

Sanchez's negative value at the plate isnt worth his defensive value at 2B. He's just a UTI/place holder type guy. Cant see how anyone would be excited to watch him play.

[DrungoHazewood]

5 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

I really don't care how the SS hits. I want a plus (if not plus, plus) defender at SS to help our young pitchers. I was really looking forward to Iggy and SS and Sanchez at 2B. I am okay with the trade because it's the right long-term move. But I want great defense up the middle.

What's Cesar Izturis up to?

[wildcard]

17 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

. Valaika did struggle in 2018 and they gave up on him after 130 Abs spread over about 60 games.

This is just wrong.  He had 133 plate appearances in all of 2018.  Not at bats.  The most he had in any month was 52.   Half time at the most for that month. So he was not given the opportunity to be a everyday player at any time in 2018.

Valaika has not gotten everyday at bats is the majors except for two periods.   When Story went on the DL in 2017 and the 2020 season.   He hit well in both cases.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

What's Cesar Izturis up to?

Just promote whomever the best defensive SS in the minors is to the majors.

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

This is just wrong.  He had 133 plate appearances in all of 2018.  Not at bats.  The most he had in any month was 52.   Half time at the most for that month. So he was not given the opportunity to be a everyday play at any time in 2018.

I know he's your favorite player, but Valaika started 10 games and got 64 plate appearances from the start of the '18 season through the 5th of May.  He was 6-for-58 with no homers and one RBI.  In Colorado.  That's why his playing time decreased.  Eventually he found himself back in Albuquerque where he put up a .683 OPS on a 63-77 team that OPS'd .817.

Life isn't fair, everyone doesn't get a 50-game stretch of regular play to prove their worth.  Valaika didn't hit in 2018.  And a .759 OPS in his minor league career doesn't point towards someone who's going to hit much.

 

[MCO'sFan]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Sanchez's negative value at the plate isnt worth his defensive value at 2B. He's just a UTI/place holder type guy. Cant see how anyone would be excited to watch him play.

While I would agree under normal circumstances. I am not expecting this team to be exciting other than to see the progression (hopefully) of the young players and more specifically the pitchers. I completely agree that his offense stinks and I won't be watching this team to see Sanchez hit. I don't care about that until they are ready to compete. He IS a placeholder. Since we need placeholders at in the MIF I want them to be plus defenders above all else. 

[MCO'sFan]

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

What's Cesar Izturis up to?

That's not a bad comp as to the type of player I'd like to see acquired. But iirc his defense here wasn't great?

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know he's your favorite player, but Valaika started 10 games and got 64 plate appearances from the start of the '18 season through the 5th of May.  He was 6-for-58 with no homers and one RBI.  In Colorado.  That's why his playing time decreased.  Eventually he found himself back in Albuquerque where he put up a .683 OPS on a 63-77 team that OPS'd .817.

Life isn't fair, everyone doesn't get a 50-game stretch of regular play to prove their worth.  Valaika didn't hit in 2018.  And a .759 OPS in his minor league career doesn't point towards someone who's going to hit much.

 

This.

I will say that if Elias and Sig see something that they think they can fix, fine.  Maybe they can.  But that's not totally certain that they can.

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, MCO'sFan said:

That's not a bad comp as to the type of player I'd like to see acquired. But iirc his defense here wasn't great?

By bb-ref his defensive numbers in Baltimore were +14 and +7, so really good, and above average.

Also, I had some interactions with Tom Tango on Bill James' site, and he pointed out that oWAR (which I have regularly disparaged) has some utility. You can look at it as "how valuable is this guy if he was an average defender at his position?"  For Izturis he would have been below replacement, instead of +6 wins for his career.  For Brooks, he would have been a 48-win player instead of a 78-win player if his glove had just been average.  If you think about it that way oWAR has some use, instead of just confusing most folks.

And I have to post this somewhere, even if it's both vain and nerdy. But Tango has been on James' site's messageboard the last few days in a big discussion on WAR and Win Shares and related things.  If you don't know he's kind of on the Mount Rushmore of sabermetrics, currently a lead statistical/database guy for MLB.  Co-author of The Book.  Anyway, he complimented 3-4 of my recent posts, so it's like being a kid on Christmas, or having Neil deGrasse Tyson compliment your science skills.

[jerios55]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that at this point in the process the emphasis should move away from intentionally weakening the ML roster in order to lower payroll and improve draft position into attempting to field a competitive team. 

If you need top 5 draft picks for 4+ years running you are doing something wrong.

I was simply joking about Mountcastle to SS. 

It is annoying that we all got excited about a strong 2B/SS combo and it went away like 2 days later.  I don't think Iglesias was a good bet to maintain his offensive numbers, but I agree he would have (likely) been more exciting than what our plan will be.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, jerios55 said:

I was simply joking about Mountcastle to SS. 

It is annoying that we all got excited about a strong 2B/SS combo and it went away like 2 days later.  I don't think Iglesias was a good bet to maintain his offensive numbers, but I agree he would have (likely) been more exciting than what our plan will be.

I'll say that if Iglesias gets more than 20 PAs in 2021 there's a 98% chance his OPS+ is lower than the 160 it was in 2020.  His most likely OPS+ is probably 85.

[jerios55]

Just now, DrungoHazewood said:

I'll say that if Iglesias gets more than 20 PAs in 2021 there's a 98% chance his OPS+ is lower than the 160 it was in 2020.  His most likely OPS+ is probably 85.

I meant over the last 2 year surge, but yes I guess saying he won't be at OPS+ 160 isn't really going out on a limb.  Haha

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, jerios55 said:

I meant over the last 2 year surge, but yes I guess saying he won't be at OPS+ 160 isn't really going out on a limb.  Haha

Sure.  But from 2015-2019 he was mostly the same player, with OPS+s in the 74-99 range, with the 99 being five years ago.  In 2020 his BABIP was .407, 100 points higher than his career mark.  So either he was performing at a wildly unsustainable level or he gained like 15 mph in exit velocity.  I'm not even going to look up the exit velocity, it's not worth the 30 seconds.

[wildcard]

36 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I know he's your favorite player, but Valaika started 10 games and got 64 plate appearances from the start of the '18 season through the 5th of May.  He was 6-for-58 with no homers and one RBI.  In Colorado.  That's why his playing time decreased.  Eventually he found himself back in Albuquerque where he put up a .683 OPS on a 63-77 team that OPS'd .817.

Life isn't fair, everyone doesn't get a 50-game stretch of regular play to prove their worth.  Valaika didn't hit in 2018.  And a .759 OPS in his minor league career doesn't point towards someone who's going to hit much.

 

He is not my favorite player.

My point is he has not been given the opportunity to be a everyday player but for a short period in 2017 and in 202O.   Starting 10 of 32 games  to begin the 2017 season is not being an everyday player.

Your counter point is missing leading because it is not as an everyday starter.

The Rockies played 32 games from the begin of the 2018 season to May 2.   Valaika played 7 complete games during that period.  He started 12.   That is not being an everyday player.  And, of course, he did not hit.  Just like any other year he was a part time player.  

And as far as being fair.   The point remains.  When he as gotten to be an everyday player he as hit.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=valaipa01&t=b&year=2018