Should Adley Rutschman play in the majors in 2021?

[Paganosfan]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

So what he did over 130 at bats two years ago might influence your decision?

I see your point.  Taking that at face value, the answer has to be no.  I think for Rutschman, we have to consider his prospect pedigree, age, the lost minor league year, our competitive window, and team control.  If he made low A ball pitchers look ridiculous in his pro debut two years ago, I think it might be one of many factors influencing in the decision.  It's my optimistic belief that there's not too many things that he would need to work on in the minors (unlike a HS kid).  So it's mostly a matter of testing how he does against major league pitching.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Paganosfan

[Ruzious]

It's disturbing that only 26-27% said Yes.  To me, either of the 1st 2 answers has to be the answer.  None of the others should even be considered.  

[Sports Guy]

25 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

It's disturbing that only 26-27% said Yes.  To me, either of the 1st 2 answers has to be the answer.  None of the others should even be considered.  

Agreed. Most of the options in the poll are horrible and the thought process behind clicking any of them is extremely flawed.  I just don’t get it.

[BohKnowsBmore]

33 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

It's disturbing that only 26-27% said Yes.  To me, either of the 1st 2 answers has to be the answer.  None of the others should even be considered.  

 

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Agreed. Most of the options in the poll are horrible and the thought process behind clicking any of them is extremely flawed.  I just don’t get it.

I would argue that the responses aren't sufficiently mutually exclusive / collectively exhaustive.

My preferred answer is actually a combination of #2 (which I selected) and#5 (which is actually the most common response). I think he should absolutely be up this year once the relevant date for the extra year passes, but only if he the team feels that he's ready to move up to the majors. If there's something he needs to work on or he's regressed during the extended break in some meaningful way, I want him to work on that at the MiL level before being promoted, at which point he's up for good.

That qualifier invalidates the "no matter what" portion of #2.

On a side note, there's no reason to constantly act like a jerk just because some people may not agree with you 100%, particularly when there are very valid reasons people selected from the options presented (in the case of option #5, wanting him to be ready as a qualifier).

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Agreed. Most of the options in the poll are horrible and the thought process behind clicking any of them is extremely flawed.  I just don’t get it.

The way I see it, a quarter are giving an unconditional yes, a quarter are giving an unconditional no, and the others are saying maybe depending on how he plays or whether the team needs him because they’re contending. 

I don’t see why you think “only if he looks ready to be a competent major league player” is a horrible answer.   Let’s say he starts the year in the minors and is putting up a .650 OPS and isn’t looking comfortable at the plate.    You’d bring him up anyway?   I don’t see why that’s the obvious thing to do.   

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

 

I would argue that the responses aren't sufficiently mutually exclusive / collectively exhaustive.

My preferred answer is actually a combination of #2 (which I selected) and#5 (which is actually the most common response). I think he should absolutely be up this year once the relevant date for the extra year passes, but only if he the team feels that he's ready to move up to the majors. If there's something he needs to work on or he's regressed during the extended break in some meaningful way, I want him to work on that at the MiL level before being promoted, at which point he's up for good.

That qualifier invalidates the "no matter what" portion of #2.

On a side note, there's no reason to constantly act like a jerk just because some people may not agree with you 100%, particularly when there are very valid reasons people selected from the options presented (in the case of option #5, wanting him to be ready as a qualifier).

I don’t care if people agree with me or not.  It’s a poor thought process.  The whole idea of “has something to work on” is so subjective and the idea that he can’t work on those things in the majors is flat out wrong, especially in a year where the team isn’t winning or even trying to win.  
 

“Something to work on” is a constant moving target.  End of the day, is he mature enough?  Can he handle the ups and downs?  If the answer to that isn’t yes right now, look to trade him while his value is high because he’s going to be a failure in the majors.    
 

By all accounts, he’s the best C in the system right now and some think he would be one of the better catchers in MLB immediately.  Why would you waste time on a 23 year old, advanced college player who is one of the best prospects at his position in years because “he may something to work on”.  It’s a poor thought process.  It’s like a college pitcher..get them up.  He plays a position that only carries a life span of so long..why waste that life span in the minors?  At what point do people actually want to contend?  You have to get these kids feet wet and let them learn up here so that they can be ready to be full go when the time to contend is here and that time should be 2022 if things go as they should and we hope to.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The way I see it, a quarter are giving an unconditional yes, a quarter are giving an unconditional no, and the others are saying maybe depending on how he plays or whether the team needs him because they’re contending. 

I don’t see why you think “only if he looks ready to be a competent major league player” is a horrible answer.   Let’s say he starts the year in the minors and is putting up a .650 OPS and isn’t looking comfortable at the plate.    You’d bring him up anyway?   I don’t see why that’s the obvious thing to do.   

The idea of “competent MLer” isn’t even on my radar.  Sure, if he is completely horrible you can leave him down but if he is, he will never amount to anything anyway.

So, I consider competent MLer to be part of the top 2 answers because I don’t see a scenario where he is horrendous facing pitching similar to what he has already seen.

There is also a lot more to consider than just raw stats.

 

It goes back to the question I asked earlier...if he is brought up immediately, what detriment do you think that is to his career?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

The way I see it, a quarter are giving an unconditional yes, a quarter are giving an unconditional no, and the others are saying maybe depending on how he plays or whether the team needs him because they’re contending. 

I don’t see why you think “only if he looks ready to be a competent major league player” is a horrible answer.   Let’s say he starts the year in the minors and is putting up a .650 OPS and isn’t looking comfortable at the plate.    You’d bring him up anyway?   I don’t see why that’s the obvious thing to do.   

Do you think time in the minors is going to substantially change things if that is the case? 

If he's a bust he's a bust.  I don't think spending a season at AA is going to transform him from whatever he's going to be into something much different.  His peer group that didn't go to college already have years of MLB play under their belts.

I think folks completely dismiss the development these guys have in college.  He wasn't playing in an intramural league for three years.

 

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think time in the minors is going to substantially change things if that is the case? 

If he's a bust he's a bust.  I don't think spending a season at AA is going to transform him from whatever he's going to be into something much different.  His peer group that didn't go to college already have years of MLB play under their belts.

I think folks completely dismiss the development these guys have in college.  He wasn't playing in an intramural league for three years.

I think there’s plenty of very highly regarded college guys who eventually had great success in the majors who weren’t ready after 100-200 pro at bats.   I don’t buy the “if he’s a bust he’s a bust” argument.

The absence of a MiL season in 2020 threw everything out of whack, and so I’m not going to pre-judge how ready Rutschman is.   Normally I’d expect him to be ready by now, and hopefully, he will quickly show that this is the case.   In that case, I wouldn’t hesitate to bring him up fairly quickly.   But if not, I’d just wait until he makes the adjustments.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think there’s plenty of very highly regarded college guys who eventually had great success in the majors who weren’t ready after 100-200 pro at bats.   I don’t buy the “if he’s a bust he’s a bust” argument.

The absence of a MiL season in 2020 threw everything out of whack, and so I’m not going to pre-judge how ready Rutschman is.   Normally I’d expect him to be ready by now, and hopefully, he will quickly show that this is the case.   In that case, I wouldn’t hesitate to bring him up fairly quickly.   But if not, I’d just wait until he makes the adjustments.

But why can’t adjustments be made at this level?  Why can’t he learn up here?  Do you think if he struggles in the minors and then is brought up, that we will ruin his career?  
 

And I disagree about the bust part.  If he can’t show that he belongs in the majors this season, I think the shine is gone from him immediately and for good reason.  
 

And btw, this is coming from someone who was disappointed in his debut and feels the excuses, especially mono, are and were bs. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I think there’s plenty of very highly regarded college guys who eventually had great success in the majors who weren’t ready after 100-200 pro at bats.   I don’t buy the “if he’s a bust he’s a bust” argument.

The absence of a MiL season in 2020 threw everything out of whack, and so I’m not going to pre-judge how ready Rutschman is.   Normally I’d expect him to be ready by now, and hopefully, he will quickly show that this is the case.   In that case, I wouldn’t hesitate to bring him up fairly quickly.   But if not, I’d just wait until he makes the adjustments.

Did they spend half a season in an intensive program like Adley did last year?

You don't buy my if he's a bust argument?  Can you think of anyone with Adley's pedigree that hit .650 in the minors and ended up amounting to anything in the majors?  (No I don't count DJ Stewart)

I also don't think you, or I, can prove someone wasn't ready or not ready or if rushing them would have helped or hindered their development. 

I've said it before, Brooks was up super early, was clearly not ready and he ended up in the Hall of Fame.

Folks can continue to develop in the majors, nothing magical exists in the minors.

[Can_of_corn]

Does anyone think that if Mike Zunino (1-3 2012 draft) had spent more time in the minors that he'd be a star now?

[Ruzious]

32 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

 

I would argue that the responses aren't sufficiently mutually exclusive / collectively exhaustive.

My preferred answer is actually a combination of #2 (which I selected) and#5 (which is actually the most common response). I think he should absolutely be up this year once the relevant date for the extra year passes, but only if he the team feels that he's ready to move up to the majors. If there's something he needs to work on or he's regressed during the extended break in some meaningful way, I want him to work on that at the MiL level before being promoted, at which point he's up for good.

That qualifier invalidates the "no matter what" portion of #2.

On a side note, there's no reason to constantly act like a jerk just because some people may not agree with you 100%, particularly when there are very valid reasons people selected from the options presented (in the case of option #5, wanting him to be ready as a qualifier).

Lol, I was about to thank you for a reasonable explanation before reading that last comment in your post.  I don't think there was anything wrong with my post.    

[Ruzious]

3 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

Lol, I was about to thank you for a reasonable explanation before reading that last comment in your post.  I don't think there was anything wrong with my post.    

Ok, I see now that wasn't directed at me.  Because I can't edit... I can't delete that last post.  

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Ruzious said:

Ok, I see now that wasn't directed at me.  Because I can't edit... I can't delete that last post.  

Yea, you were nicer about it than I was..but your point was the same as mine.  The other answers just don’t make sense, especially those who want to wait until next year.  I can’t fathom the thought process that says, well you are doing well and are easily the right age but hey, you stay in the minors until you are even older and wear down more.