Good Golly this team is painful to watch right now...

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Well, that helps to explain the dumbing down of Americas youth.

 

This is where YOU are getting lost.  YOU are saying the team would only go from a 64 win to a 68 team.  I have never said that.  I do not agree with that.  I believe they are already about a 68 win team right now to begin with and I think if they had done a better job upgrading other areas of the team that this team could be a 75-80 win team.

 

Now, to get that 80 win area, they would need the youth to play well, Adley come up (which is also part of what I would do, since that is what we are talking about) and things like that.  If those guys fail or get hurt, sure the improvements won't be as strong.  I personally believe in a lot of the youth and young talent this team has, so I think they would have been good enough to show improvement.  I think bringing in better talent to support the young players and to just flat out be more competitive is good for them.  

 

This has CONSISTENTLY been my point the whole time so yes, if you are failing to understand that, that is absolutely on you, not me.

 

I think you have a belief that for us to do what I think we should have done, that we would have had to trade a lot of our better talent.  That's just not true because of how this offseason went and the power that money had this past offseason.  And if teams did say, we must have your top guys, you say no thanks.  That's obvious, especially since I have also  consistently said that you don't sacrifice the long term. Trading 2 guys in the 25-40 range (as an example) isn't sacrificing anything.  I have also said, consistently, that you don't tie yourself up in long term contracts that could hurt you.  But adding a 1-2 year deal would be fine.

 

My top target this offseason as Stroman.  He unfortunately accepted a QO. Would have loved to have added him on a 3-4 year deal.  I also wanted German Marquez and I still do.  That's a guy I would have traded some of our better talent for.  He is really good, young and signed to a favorable deal for several years.  Outside of those 2 players, I don't remember advocating for anyone where I would have dealt a lot of value or paid a big long term deal to.  

 

I think adding 1-2 very good relievers, a real starter and a few positional upgrades would have done wonders for this team.

You want to disagree, that's fine...but my point has remained the same and if you don't get that, its on you.

I don’t think that the current team is a 68 win team, but reasonable minds can differ on that.    I voted 61-65 in the preseason poll, and I still think that although they’re on pace for 60 right now and in a tailspin.    

I guess my question is whether it’s worth it to try to add 7-12 wins to a 68-win team.   I feel like I watched Beattie and Flanagan try to do that several times, and all it did was moor the team in perpetual mediocrity and waste a lot of money. 

Now, you might say that’s because the players they got were the wrong ones.   But, that’s 20/20 hindsight.   

And, unlike you, I believe that money not spent today is money that’s available to be spent when it has more potential impact.    I know you don’t think the O’s operate that way, but I’d say history shows that they do.    



 

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t think that the current team is a 68 win team, but reasonable minds can differ on that.    I voted 61-65 in the preseason poll, and I still think that although they’re on pace for 60 right now and in a tailspin.    

I guess my question is whether it’s worth it to try to add 7-12 wins to a 68-win team.   I feel like I watched Beattie and Flanagan try to do that several times, and all it did was moor the team in perpetual mediocrity and waste a lot of money. 

Now, you might say that’s because the players they got were the wrong ones.   But, that’s 20/20 hindsight.   

And, unlike you, I believe that money not spent today is money that’s available to be spent when it has more potential impact.    I know you don’t think the O’s operate that way, but I’d say history shows that they do.    



 

Yea very little chance of that being true (your last paragraph).

I don’t think it’s hindsight at all to say the guys they spent money on was awful.  Many of us said it at the time of signings like Segui, Baez, etc...

Not all deals will work out, even ones that look like they should..others are destined to fail from the start.  Those are examples of that.

And I agree that people may not agree on where the team is now and if it’s worth it to improve it.  
 

I think it’s worth it on many different levels but I can also see why people wouldn’t agree.