When should the O’s call up Rutschman?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

The rules are set by the CBA. MLBPA and Rutschman by extension agreed to those rules when he signed up to play professional baseball. It is not "conspiring", it is doing what's best for the team as incentivized by the CBA. Every team does it and the Orioles would be foolish not to.

I would fully support changing the CBA to take away the incentive to or even punish teams somehow for holding players back. Within the current system, I would rather have Rutschman for 7 years than 6 years. 

I understand my employer will promote me when it is in their interest to do so, performance being one factor but not the only factor because it's not about me. 

I'm pretty sure, given that the PA has attempted to intervene before, that some good faith clause is theoretically in play here.  Just because it isn't a singular event to witness a team "conspire" against players in this fashion doesn't mean that isn't the correct term to use.

Also, as Frobby so deftly showed us, this practice isn't near as prevalent as folks like to claim.

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I never said that.   And no I probably wouldn't be if I was the target.  But I'm not.    I'm not saying Adley should be tickled that this is taking place.   But I am saying I put the concerns of the team ahead of the players,  usually, and that's why this fan is ok with the time manipulation game. 

 

Same as with college sports.  I absolutely loathe all this recent transferring crap.   Sure it's better for the players,  but often harmful to the school I follow,  thus I'm against it.   I'm sure if I were a player,  I'd want the freedom to transfer at all with no penalty.  But I'm not,  I'm a fan,  and want what's best for my school first,  the players 2nd.

So you are fine with it if it isn't you.

Got it.

Kudos for being honest about it.

[LTO's]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It is outlandish to hold him down in the minors until next year.

Counterpoint: no it's not. Counterpoint #2: they may not even do that. Who knows? It's been literally one month.

[forphase1]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So you are fine with it if it isn't you.

Got it.

Kudos for being honest about it.

  Absolutely.  I'm all for building another prison, as long as they build it in your back yard and not in mine.  At the end of the day we are talking about billionaire owners against millionaire players, so it's hard for me to get worked up over Adley possibly only making 150 million over the course of his career instead of 175 million he could make if we don't manipulate the service years (completely made up numbers obviously).  If it gives the Os an extra year of having a possibly all-star caliber catcher during this next competitive window, I can live with Adley not quite being as rich as he otherwise could have been.  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

  Absolutely.  I'm all for building another prison, as long as they build it in your back yard and not in mine.  At the end of the day we are talking about billionaire owners against millionaire players, so it's hard for me to get worked up over Adley possibly only making 150 million over the course of his career instead of 175 million he could make if we don't manipulate the service years (completely made up numbers obviously).  If it gives the Os an extra year of having a possibly all-star caliber catcher during this next competitive window, I can live with Adley not quite being as rich as he otherwise could have been.  

And if he ends up by some freak happenstance to never make the majors at all he's still got that signing bonus!

[forphase1]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

And if he ends up by some freak happenstance to never make the majors at all he's still got that signing bonus!

Exactly!  (yes I know you were being sarcastic, but realistically speaking if he never catches another ball he's made 4x what the average American will make in their lifetime by just playing college ball and then signing a piece of paper.  Hard to shed many tears for him.)

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm pretty sure, given that the PA has attempted to intervene before, that some good faith clause is theoretically in play here.  Just because it isn't a singular event to witness a team "conspire" against players in this fashion doesn't mean that isn't the correct term to use.

Also, as Frobby so deftly showed us, this practice isn't near as prevalent as folks like to claim.

Even if there is indeed a good faith clause we all know they need something stronger than that to have any teeth. Short of that I am in favor of the O's doing whatever is in their interest. Now, Rutschman could avoid the whole thing by coming to us with a deal for a team friendly extension.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Even if there is indeed a good faith clause we all know they need something stronger than that to have any teeth. Short of that I am in favor of the O's doing whatever is in their interest. Now, Rutschman could avoid the whole thing by coming to us with a deal for a team friendly extension.  

Ownership has to be willing to play ball too. Manny Machado could have signed an early extension with the Orioles, but the O's didn't want to pay what Machado was asking and it cost the O's. 

The Orioles rebuild wouldn't have been any different, but Manny signed to a contract extension would have been a much more valuable trade asset. 

Baltimore Orioles could have signed Manny Machado to long term deal

Quote

However, it did not need to be that way. According to Jon Heyman, the Orioles had a chance to extend Machado before he had reached arbitration eligibility. They had reportedly offered Machado an eight year deal worth $64 million, a price tag that would have been a record breaking deal at the time.

That offer was almost enough to get Machado to sign. However, his representation wanted a bit more. Specifically, his agent, Dan Lorenzen, was looking for a specific number, saying that any deal “has to start with a 7.”

If that is the case, and Machado was willing to sign for at least $70 million, the Orioles made a dramatic miscalculation. For less than an additional $1 million per year, they could have kept Machado in town, locking in one of the best players in the game today.

 

[LTO's]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Gosh, and here I thought I was very vocal in my disagreement in how they gamed Mountcastle's clock.  I also remember posting positive things about how the Padres handled Tatis.  I have also been very outspoken in my dislike of the proposed International draft.

So this isn't something new for me, it is just the latest example.

They didn't game Mountcastle's clock. I think that you are mostly correct in how to look at the system as it currently is. However, you are still being idealistic and a little naïve. You are completely reluctant to acknowledge that a promising player can completely fail in the big leagues and how that can be a detriment to himself as well as obviously the big league club. Probably the hardest thing in all of sports is to make adjustments at the ML level. When you haven't even been able to really do that at the minor league level, there's little to no shot you'd be able to do so in the AL East. I hope they promote him later this summer. Maybe they will. But having him play some games above low-A ball is not exploiting him. It's just not. I would be annoyed if he continued to perform well throughout the year and he didn't break camp with the Orioles in 2022. But we are a LONG way away from that point. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, LTO's said:

They didn't game Mountcastle's clock. I think that you are mostly correct in how to look at the system as it currently is. However, you are still being idealistic and a little naïve. You are completely reluctant to acknowledge that a promising player can completely fail in the big leagues and how that can be a detriment to himself as well as obviously the big league club. Probably the hardest thing in all of sports is to make adjustments at the ML level. When you haven't even been able to really do that at the minor league level, there's little to no shot you'd be able to do so in the AL East. I hope they promote him later this summer. Maybe they will. But having him play some games above low-A ball is not exploiting him. It's just not. I would be annoyed if he continued to perform well throughout the year and he didn't break camp with the Orioles in 2022. But we are a LONG way away from that point. 

He won the AAA MVP and didn't get a September Callup.

I consider that suspicious.  You can feel free to disagree.

[Morgan423]

Calling him up now simultaneously starts his service clock and potentially worsens our draft position by an extra game or two.

I get that we all want to see what he can do, but it doesn't seem like the smartest long term move.  Pass.

[interloper]

When he can prove he can hit for a sustained period of time ideally. He's got a about a month and a half of playing time to show for the last 2 years. Let him simmer a bit. 

September callup if he continues to dominate and not a minute sooner for me.

[interloper]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He won the AAA MVP and didn't get a September Callup.

I consider that suspicious.  You can feel free to disagree.

Good sign that the O's are no longer making decisions based on arbitrary minor league awards if you ask me. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Good sign that the O's are no longer making decisions based on arbitrary minor league awards if you ask me. 

Did they ever?

The question is why didn't he get a callup other than service time concerns.

[Gentile4]

Can I just point out that Rutschman has caught all of 280 innings in the minors and is a career .258 hitter. Yes, he does walk a lot, and that's not a small thing, but he's yet to really put together any dominant hitting streaks. At 22, Mountcastle hit 35 doubles and 25 HR's at AAA. Let's see AR do something similar.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Gentile4
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