Proposal: O's spend 40m in FA

[OrangeTurtle]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

If it is true that $1 saved now increases the 2023 budget by $1 I would agree. I'm not sure that is the case. Some think ownership will just pocket the savings. A more optimistic take is you might also have a bigger pie in the future with a more competitive product generating revenue. Teams like DET, KC, ARIZ and TEX are running $80M+ payrolls without contending. 

I think we have so many holes in the bullpen that we will have no shortage of opportunities for Bautista etc. 

Yes, this is the great unknown and I'd like to think more fans in the stands in 2022 means more money to spend in 2023, etc. Unfortunately, we just don't know how that works.

I don't inherently have a problem with blowing money next year on 1 year deal relievers, but I do in the context of which, if we have 40 mill to spend and it takes 30+ to sign Correa, then I don't want 2-3 relievers next year eating up 15 mill, even if the 15 mill comes off the books after next year, if it means we could have got Correa, but didn't have the funds to do so NEXT YEAR. 

Agree though I don't know if money not spent rolls over into following years to use or if the money is "pocketed" like you said.

My overall point is that if we can increase payroll 40 mill next year, I'd rather exhaust a lot of that getting our "Werth" and fill in minor cheap upgrades elsewhere, than blow our wad going after multiple upgrades next year, when next year isn't a year to "contend", if that makes sense.

[OrangeTurtle]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Because catcher is the toughest position with the most injury potential of all the positions.  Older guys get hurt more often and take longer to heal.   They get paid to sit on the IL.

Which is exactly why I propose not blowing 10 mill+ on a younger, more capable backup, when Adley should be getting most of the playing time after May next year.

Either Rutschman is good or he isn't. If he isn't, then that throws a wrench into everything and our ability to compete for a WS in the next 5 years. If he's good, and we can't spend with a top 10 payroll, I'm sorry, I'm spreading my resource funds elsewhere.

Those older guys get you through next year and aren't Severino, so that's pretty great just by default.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Ok that is fine.  You like 37 year old Vogt who I have always known as an offense first catcher/1B with a weak arm.   I don't think he is any better than Severino in 50 games and he is much older.  But if you are happy with that....

I don’t think we know what catchers will be available.   The FA list is pretty short but typically a number of catchers get nontendered, so we’ll see.  Here’s the FA list, per Cot’s:

Tucker Barnhart *
Welington Castillo
Robinson Chirinos
Travis d’Arnaud
Yan Gomes
Sandy Leon
Martin Maldonado
Jeff Mathis
Yadier Molina
Roberto Perez *
Manny Pina
Buster Posey *
Wilson Ramos
Austin Romine
Kurt Suzuki
Christian Vazquez
Mike Zunino *

* Subject to team option.   I’d guess that Posey and Zunino will have their options exercised and Barnhart and Perez will become FAs.

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, OrangeTurtle said:

Which is exactly why I propose not blowing 10 mill+ on a younger, more capable backup, when Adley should be getting most of the playing time after May next year.

Either Rutschman is good or he isn't. If he isn't, then that throws a wrench into everything and our ability to compete for a WS in the next 5 years. If he's good, and we can't spend with a top 10 payroll, I'm sorry, I'm spreading my resource funds elsewhere.

Those older guys get you through next year and aren't Severino, so that's pretty great just by default.

Throw the flag. Personal foul.  No one has talked about spending 10m on a backup catcher but you.

[Sports Guy]

I really don’t care who the back up C is.  That’s not a position I would looking to spend much money on.  

[OrangeTurtle]

Just now, wildcard said:

Throw the flag. Personal foul.  No one has talked about spending 10m on a backup catcher but you.

Fair enough, but if I'm aiming for 35+ year old vets that should get $3-6 annually, I'm not sure what players you're expecting to get that are younger and better that won't make more than that. 

If I had it my way, I'd prob get a guy for the league minimum to start until May and then backup the rest of the year. 

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I really don’t care who the back up C is.  That’s not a position I would looking to spend much money on.  

I am proposing that the backup catcher catches 50 games.  Basic about 1/3 of the season.  The same way they are using Adley now to keep him rested.  You don't care.  I can understand that.

[wildcard]

3 minutes ago, OrangeTurtle said:

Fair enough, but if I'm aiming for 35+ year old vets that should get $3-6 annually, I'm not sure what players you're expecting to get that are younger and better that won't make more than that. 

If I had it my way, I'd prob get a guy for the league minimum to start until May and then backup the rest of the year. 

Adley is probably in the majors by mid April.  Severino is younger than 35 and will probably make less than 3M.

[Sports Guy]

We should be spending next to no money on the OF, 1st base, DH, back up C, UTI, second and/or SS, at least 3 SP spots, at least 5 reliever spots.

I think, assuming value is there, you trade Santander and Mancini in the offseason.  That should save you something in the area of 11-14M.  You Could deal Mullins if someone overpays but that isn’t likely..same with Means although I’m much more likely to want to keep Means over any of the other potential trade candidates.

Spend your money on real Players.  True difference making talent.  Put those 3-4 guys with what you have in the organization) and let’s see major 2022 improvement and really ramp things up in 2023.

Thats how it should be done.  

[Redskins Rick]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I really don’t care who the back up C is.  That’s not a position I would looking to spend much money on.  

I dont want league min below replacement level, you never know when #1 guy gets hurt and goes down for a spell. I dont expect a 3 WAR on the bench.

But, for me, my backup catcher needs to have some catcher tools in his skillset.

 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I am proposing that the backup catcher catches 50 games.  Basic about 1/3 of the season.  The same way they are using Adley now to keep him rested.  You don't care.  I can understand that.

I don’t care to spend a lot of money on that role.  It’s a waste of funds right now.  Adley can go out and catch more than a vet C.  I think 35-50 games is about right in terms of what we need.  We shouldn’t be paying a lot for that though.

There are more important and wiser ways to spend money right now.  The value of the back up C increases as Adley gets older.

[OrangeTurtle]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Adley is probably in the majors by mid April.  Severino is younger than 35 and will probably make less than 3M.

Like SG just said, I don't care who the backup catcher is next year, as long as it's not Severino and they are glove first. I'm not trying to spend 3M on a backup C.

Severino's defense and effort is appalling. He needs to go. 

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We should be spending next to no money on the OF, 1st base, DH, back up C, UTI, second and/or SS, at least 3 SP spots, at least 5 reliever spots.

I think, assuming value is there, you trade Santander and Mancini in the offseason.  That should save you something in the area of 11-14M.  You Could deal Mullins if someone overpays but that isn’t likely..same with Means although I’m much more likely to want to keep Means over any of the other potential trade candidates.

Spend your money on real Players.  True difference making talent.  Put those 3-4 guys with what you have in the organization) and let’s see major 2022 improvement and really ramp things up in 2023.

Thats how it should be done.  

You are selling low on Mancini and Santander.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Redskins Rick said:

I dont want league min below replacement level, you never know when #1 guy gets hurt and goes down for a spell. I dont expect a 3 WAR on the bench.

But, for me, my backup catcher needs to have some catcher tools in his skillset.

 

This all makes sense..if you resources that say you can spend 3-7M On your back up.  We don’t, not right now.  So spend it wisely.  This isn’t spending it wisely right now.

And we don’t need some very influence to teach Adley either.  This kid is already light years ahead of most of the C in the majors right now with his attitude, maturity, leadership, etc…

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

You are selling low on Mancini and Santander.

We don’t know that until offers are in.  Mancini has had a nice year considering the circumstances and I think enough teams will feel good about him.

Santander is ending the year strong, is cost controlled and relatively cheap.  I think he has enough value to justify trading him.

We don’t need to bring him back on this team.  We have guys we can bring up and give chances to while we-allocating the funds saved from those guys into better players.