Orioles looking to trade Means?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Oh, get over yourself.   If Means actually gets traded and you don’t like the return, you can complain then.   Nobody’s clamoring for his departure.   Lots of people are in favor of knowing what the potential return would be, rather than refusing to find out.  

By the way, Mussina wasn’t a reliever, and we’ve definitely had stud relievers since he left.  
 

I’m surprised you even interacted with him.  It’s always a waste of time.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Oh, get over yourself.   If Means actually gets traded and you don’t like the return, you can complain then.   Nobody’s clamoring for his departure.   Lots of people are in favor of knowing what the potential return would be, rather than refusing to find out.  

By the way, Mussina wasn’t a reliever, and we’ve definitely had stud relievers since he left.  
 

The Orioles are still at a point where they should be in talent acquisition mode. It would be foolish to at least not take calls on Means in order to gauge his value. This isn't going to be the fire sale of 2000 or 2018 where Means is going to get traded just to get some prospects of dubious quality. 

If you get a wow offer of 3 or 4 players that can contribute this decade as pieces of a winning team, then Elias has to consider pulling the trigger on a trade. 

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

The Orioles are still at a point where they should be in talent acquisition mode. It would be foolish to at least not take calls on Means in order to gauge his value. This isn't going to be the fire sale of 2000 or 2018 where Means is going to get traded just to get some prospects of dubious quality. 

If you get a wow offer of 3 or 4 players that can contribute this decade as pieces of a winning team, then Elias has to consider pulling the trigger on a trade. 

You should always be in talent acquisition mode.

That being said I think that three and a half seasons of intentionally losing as many games as possible should be enough.

[Sessh]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:42 PM, interloper said:

Welcome back, but this is definitely not the case IMO.

I see the O's have the #1 farm system in the league? That's pretty rad.

[Explosivo]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:12 AM, Sports Guy said:

If true, Mullins should also be made available.

Maybe this means, Means may have been aided by using stuff now he won’t have access to, which means we would be trading him at his highest value.

[Brooks The Great]

14 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I think I matter have to consider that deal in the article. Williamson, Macko/Phillips, 3rd piece. However, I’d like the 3rd piece to be a Pinto 2.0 piece and not a 20k Sr sign OF. 
 

What I like about that theorized trade is that we’re not getting guys that are top 100 prospects right now, but rather guys that will likely be top 100 one year from now. 2023/2024 ETA is what we’re looking for. Plus they’re top 10 guys from a very deep system. Would we trade Means for Gunnar and Kjerstad/Stowers?

If we deal Means to Seattle, I'd be asking for George Kirby and one of Alberto Rodriguez, Starlin Aguilar, or Milkar Perez. Maybe add Macko or Phillips as a third piece. I'd be happy with that deal. Not sure if the Mariners would consider dealing Kirby, but I'd begin discussions with him.

[sportsfan8703]

12 hours ago, Explosivo said:

Maybe this means, Means may have been aided by using stuff now he won’t have access to, which means we would be trading him at his highest value.

This is what I’m thinking. Means is a good story and all, but if the “magic” wears off and he gets lit up, then we’re looking at a non tender situation. Losing sucks. It does. But I think it’s smart here to hedge our bets and try and get players that will be here when we’re actually good(2023+). 

[sevastras]

14 hours ago, Explosivo said:

Maybe this means, Means may have been aided by using stuff now he won’t have access to, which means we would be trading him at his highest value.

Means blatantly used something the first half of the season. I would be fine if he was dealt as long as it was for some good players. I think he can still be effective but don’t think he will be dominant. 

[ThomasTomasz]

You always have to listen.  Connolly had a great point this morning on that note.  Elias has to weigh the pros and cons of both dealing Means, but also the return.  He pointed to the Erik Bedard situation as a similar situation, and how both Adam Jones and Chris Tillman were very influential to our success during the 2012-2016 run.  

However, you also have to trust that your scouts and analytics department has the right data.  For as much as we like to point to the success of that deal………there were two other rumored deals for Bedard going around at that time.  One from the Dodgers, and one from the Reds.  From the Dodgers, Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp were the rumored return.  From the Reds, Joey Votto and our choice of Homer Bailey/Johnny Cueto.  

Not discounting what Adam and Tillman did for us, but we did whiff on having a future Hall of Fame level talent on this team with one of those deals.  

If a team is offering something like that, we have to take it to the bank.  Problem is, there are very few teams in the market to compete who can make that deal.  The Mariners, Rays and Dodgers are the teams who stick out with the systems to make it worth our while.  If Seattle calls and offers our choice of Marie/Rodriguez, plus Matt Brash and Justin Dunn………that is most certainly a deal to consider doing.  

[7Mo]

12 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

If we deal Means to Seattle, I'd be asking for George Kirby and one of Alberto Rodriguez, Starlin Aguilar, or Milkar Perez. Maybe add Macko or Phillips as a third piece. I'd be happy with that deal. Not sure if the Mariners would consider dealing Kirby, but I'd begin discussions with him.

Good post. I like those names.

[Frobby]

Roch’s take (which may or may not be what the Orioles want fans to hear):

Why are the Orioles shopping John Means?
No one said they’re shopping him. I saw the word “dangling” in a tweet, which is wide open to interpretation. (It’s also frowned upon in certain venues.) It suggests that Mike Elias is the aggressor, that he’s the one dialing the phone.

Here’s what I’ve gleaned: The Orioles aren’t pushing hard to trade Means. They aren’t pushing hard to trade Cedric Mullins. But Means and Mullins are available in the right offer, and Elias wouldn’t be doing his job if he failed to make that clear to other teams. I’m sure it happened at the general managers meetings. And these are two big trade chips on a rebuilding team, though Mullins’ salary and years of controllability make him much more tempting to hold onto.

I’m still expecting Means to pitch for the Orioles on opening day. I’m also expecting plenty of teams to speak with Elias about him.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2021/11/trying-to-answer-a-few-more-orioles-questions.html#comments

And Melewski doubling down on that view:

It was a tweet that no doubt was well seen and read throughout Birdland. That the Orioles were “dangling” John Means in trade talks. Not completely sure what that means, no pun intended, but dangling is defined as “hanging or swinging loosely.”

That last part could apply. No one can know for sure what the team is thinking on this, but a guess here is that Means is certainly not being shopped. I would see him as much more likely to be on the team than dealt between now and opening day 2022. But any team would just be doing due diligence in fielding trade calls and engaging discussions. It’s part of the job and no doubt dozens, maybe hundreds of prominent players come up in talks that never get to a finish line and few ever know or find out about.

This could very well simply be that.

https://www.masnsports.com/steve-melewski/2021/11/are-os-just-doing-due-diligence-on-means.html

[Sports Guy]

The Orioles are telling you right now that they aren’t intending to be good in 2022.  With that being the case, he is also telling you that it’s not likely the Os compete for the playoffs in 2023.  
 

Im Not saying it’s impossible, it’s just not likely.

So, we are now talking 2024.  In 2024, Means will be 31 and Mullins will be 29.  How good are those players in 2024?  Are they worth the salaries they will be making?  Are we better off getting the players you could get for them for a run in 2024?  
 

These are all questions that have to be considered.  Os twitterverse is hilarious..they are all going crazy over the thought of trading either of these guys.  The short sightedness is hysterical.  
 

I know some will look at this as the Os being cheap and actually, for once, I’m not one of them…at least not completely.  On one hand, it is cheapness because they aren’t trying to win games now.  If they were, I would be far more hesitant to deal them.  However, the overall picture suggests that trading these guys now very well could be best for the franchise.  Elias has to explore it.

[Roll Tide]

On 11/25/2021 at 2:23 AM, Brooks The Great said:

If we deal Means to Seattle, I'd be asking for George Kirby and one of Alberto Rodriguez, Starlin Aguilar, or Milkar Perez. Maybe add Macko or Phillips as a third piece. I'd be happy with that deal. Not sure if the Mariners would consider dealing Kirby, but I'd begin discussions with him.

I’d like to get Emerson Hancock from Seattle

[Tony-OH]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:21 PM, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Trading Means? Disgusting. Particularly when it’s not even selling high. And question to the board (Elias cult defenders): point to some astute trades/signings/waiver claims that have impressed you. Tyler Wells is not evidence of greatness. Excuses and excuses. We haven’t had a stud reliever since Mussina and haven’t won a championship in nearly 40 years yet the board is clamoring for his departure? This isn’t a fan board, it’s an Elias personality cult. 

One, this board has many different opinions that vary greatly so don't generalize the board as anything.

Two, if you hate the board so much, feel free to not come back. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The Orioles are telling you right now that they aren’t intending to be good in 2022.  With that being the case, he is also telling you that it’s not likely the Os compete for the playoffs in 2023.  
 

Im Not saying it’s impossible, it’s just not likely.

So, we are now talking 2024.  In 2024, Means will be 31 and Mullins will be 29.  How good are those players in 2024?  Are they worth the salaries they will be making?  Are we better off getting the players you could get for them for a run in 2024?  
 

These are all questions that have to be considered.  Os twitterverse is hilarious..they are all going crazy over the thought of trading either of these guys.  The short sightedness is hysterical.  
 

I know some will look at this as the Os being cheap and actually, for once, I’m not one of them…at least not completely.  On one hand, it is cheapness because they aren’t trying to win games now.  If they were, I would be far more hesitant to deal them.  However, the overall picture suggests that trading these guys now very well could be best for the franchise.  Elias has to explore it.

Mullins will be 28 with a skill set that does not typically decline until the mid-30s.

I think the plan is to compete for good by 2024. If that's the case, I'm fine with that. 

Means is a guy I'm not going to just get rid of, but if I can get a good return with a young ready or nearly ready starting pitching prospect as a key part, then I would be ok with moving him.