O's Spring Training Depth Chart

[wildcard]

12 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Four outings in the majors and I have an opinion on what I saw.   Heck, four outings is usually more than enough for you.

If that all he was going to get maybe a conclusion would be in order.  But he is coming to ST where he can show what he has.  He could begin at AAA to see if he  can continue what he did  at AAA in August.  And he will probably get another shot in the Majors.   No need to make a conclusion at this point.

Your opinion is based on a guy who was hurt last off season.  Did not get his full off season training.   The was hurt of two months in the minors.  Did well for a couple of months and then was pitched against two of the best offenses in the majors late in the season.   You discount his stuff in the majors.  I discount your opinion as not taking into account what the guy had been through.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

If that all he was going to get maybe a conclusion would be in order.  But he is coming to ST where he can show what he has.  He could begin at AAA to see if he  can continue what he did  at AAA in August.  And he will probably get another shot in the Majors.   No need to make a conclusion at this point.

Your opinion is based on a guy who was hurt last off season.  Did not get his full off season training.   The was hurt of two months in the minors.  Did well for a couple of months and then was pitch against two of the best offenses in the majors late in the season.   You discount his stuff in the majors.  I discount your opinion as not taking into account what the guy had been through.

I didn't say he shouldn't be given a chance. I don't dismiss the possibility that he regains his mid 90's fastball.  I don't dismiss his injury in 2020 as a factor. In fact, I think it had a significant effect.  It doesn't change my opinion that he looked awful.

[connja]

3 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Four outings in the majors and I have an opinion on what I saw.   Heck, four outings is usually more than enough for you.

some of the best pitchers in history were bad for their first couple years.  Soft throwing Greg Maddux was over 5.00 era before he got it together.  Let's give our guys some time.    That's one benefit we have of being so bad.

[RZNJ]

35 minutes ago, connja said:

some of the best pitchers in history were bad for their first couple years.  Soft throwing Greg Maddux was over 5.00 era before he got it together.  Let's give our guys some time.    That's one benefit we have of being so bad.

I'm with you. I was more impressed with Lowther and Wells.  I hope they all succeed.  I wasn't closing the book on Baumann, just stating my opinion on how he looked to me.  

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, connja said:

some of the best pitchers in history were bad for their first couple years.  Soft throwing Greg Maddux was over 5.00 era before he got it together.  Let's give our guys some time.    That's one benefit we have of being so bad.

Point well taken, but Maddux was 20 and a 2nd round pick when he made his debut.

Baumann was a 3rd round pick but a few days away from his 26th birthday when he made his debut.

I'm with RZNJ, he didn't look great at all but he certainly deserves another chance.  

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Baumann looked worse than Aiken, Wells, Lowther and Zimmerman.  Just my opinion!    I know he had good numbers in AA in 2019 and he put up decent numbers last year in AA and AAA.  In the majors he "literally" looked awful.  Again, my opinion.

I agree he looked bad.   But, hope springs eternal.   May have just been year-end fatigue after not pitching much in 2020.

[Sports Guy]

11 hours ago, wildcard said:

If that all he was going to get maybe a conclusion would be in order.  But he is coming to ST where he can show what he has.  He could begin at AAA to see if he  can continue what he did  at AAA in August.  And he will probably get another shot in the Majors.   No need to make a conclusion at this point.

Your opinion is based on a guy who was hurt last off season.  Did not get his full off season training.   The was hurt of two months in the minors.  Did well for a couple of months and then was pitch against two of the best offenses in the majors late in the season.   You discount his stuff in the majors.  I discount your opinion as not taking into account what the guy had been through.

What did he do in AAA?  He walked a ton of guys and, according to Tony, displayed the same poor stuff we saw in Baltimore.

Why are you excited over those 27 innings of poor stuff and walk rate around 4.5?

Why do you keep referencing it as if it matters?

If you want to reference anything, you simply talk about how he got through the season healthy and after another year removed from his injury, we can hope that he regains his stuff.  That is the only positive thing to take away from 2021..that he got through it and quite frankly, that is a big deal.

[waroriole]

15 hours ago, wildcard said:

Baumann got well,  pitched his way out of AA and pitched well in AAA.  So he didn't suck, he just has not conquered the Majors yet.   So far he was better at AAA than Zimmerman.

There have been countless guys who pitched well at AA and AAA and then bombed in Baltimore. Many younger than 26. Unless he can get movement on a FB that’s straight as an arrow, and clean up all his command issues, he’ll never make it in MLB. 
 

Also, why are you pointing out the small sample size of his innings at MLB but wanna rely on less than 50 IP at AAA for Zimmerman and Baumann to make the claim Baumann is better. That’s silly man. Come on

[NCRaven]

At some point, you have to give PTBNL a legitimate shot.

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, waroriole said:

There have been countless guys who pitched well at AA and AAA and then bombed in Baltimore. Many younger than 26. Unless he can get movement on a FB that’s straight as an arrow, and clean up all his command issues, he’ll never make it in MLB. 
 

Also, why are you pointing out the small sample size of his innings at MLB but wanna rely on less than 50 IP at AAA for Zimmerman and Baumann to make the claim Baumann is better. That’s silly man. Come on

I think with a lot of these inexperienced pitchers you just have to be patient and let things sort themselves out.   I think we know that 2019 Baumann was a superior prospect to Zimmermann.    But we also know that Zimmermann’s stuff has been getting better since we first acquired him in 2018, whereas Baumann’s stuff has taken a step backwards since 2019, probably due to his elbow issues.   From what I’ve seen, Zimmermann’s ceiling is pretty limited.   His 5.04 ERA this year is probably about as good as he’s going to get, but that’s still useful.    Based on what we saw in 2019, Baumann still has the higher ceiling IMO, but there’s serious risk that he won’t reach that level, and his mid-case outcome is probably a little worse than Zimmermann’s.    But there’s just a ton of unknowns when it comes to these guys and many of our other young guys.   My plan is to stay humble when it comes to forecasting who will succeed and fail.   I sure never saw John Means coming.