Hard to argue with it.

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, geschinger said:

Maybe a little bit of cockiness in believing they see something from his last month in Texas that they can get him to replicate.  If they're wrong, he still a who can likely eat 150-175 innings which has some value considering the state of the rotation.  If they are right, he's a steal.  

I don't mind Lyles per se, what I mind is $7M for Lyles. He put up negative WAR last year and -2.3 for his career. Maybe they get him to work out somehow but I don't see any justification for $7M. If you are going to spend $7M, is Lyles the one you are going to spend it on? 

[wildcard]

32 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I don't mind Lyles per se, what I mind is $7M for Lyles. He put up negative WAR last year and -2.3 for his career. Maybe they get him to work out somehow but I don't see any justification for $7M. If you are going to spend $7M, is Lyles the one you are going to spend it on? 

How would you have spent the 7M?

[Aristotelian]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

How would you have spent the 7M?

I was hoping for Boxberger and Harrison.

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, wildcard said:

How would you have spent the 7M?

Lots of things..or nothing.  I would have offered him 3M at most and let him accrue more money via incentives (IP).

[geschinger]

5 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I was hoping for Boxberger and Harrison.

Considering one of the stated goals was to add a couple of starters to the pitching staff - what would you have done instead to address that need? 

I agree Lyles looks like an overpay, just not sure what the alternatives were that could realistically give the team 150 innings and that would only require a one year commitment.  He was a 2.0 WAR player as recently as 2019 so there is a non-zero chance he actually earns his salary.  

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, geschinger said:

Considering one of the stated goals was to add a couple of starters to the pitching staff - what would you have done instead to address that need? 

I agree Lyles looks like an overpay, just not sure what the alternatives were that could realistically give the team 150 innings and that would only require a one year commitment.  He was a 2.0 WAR player as recently as 2019 so there is a non-zero chance he actually earns his salary.  

Eduardo Rodriguez 

Quintana

Make trades.

There were plenty of options available and still are, that would be better gambles than Lyles.  Lyles isn’t good.  The hope is that he gives us 160+ innings of 5 ERA baseball.

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, geschinger said:

Considering one of the stated goals was to add a couple of starters to the pitching staff - what would you have done instead to address that need? 

I agree Lyles looks like an overpay, just not sure what the alternatives were that could realistically give the team 150 innings and that would only require a one year commitment.  He was a 2.0 WAR player as recently as 2019 so there is a non-zero chance he actually earns his salary.  

I'd rather have Richards, Pineda, Smyly, Boyd, Bundy, Hill, Martin Perez, Duffy, and Kuhl, and they all signed for less. If Lyles costs $7M I would honestly rather go with Akin, Wells, Baumann etc and spend the money on other needs. 

[geschinger]

2 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I'd rather have Richards, Pineda, Smyly, Boyd, Bundy, Hill, Martin Perez, Duffy, and Kuhl, and they all signed for less. If Lyles costs $7M I would honestly rather go with Akin, Wells, Baumann etc and spend the money on other needs. 

I do like quite a few of those guys better but I think a good chunk were gone before they settled on Lyles.  I'd be curious if they were in the hunt for any of them. I especially liked Rodriguez as SG mentioned but he too was already off the table.  

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, geschinger said:

I do like quite a few of those guys better but I think a good chunk were gone before they settled on Lyles.  I'd be curious if they were in the hunt for any of them. I especially liked Rodriguez as SG mentioned but he too was already off the table.  

And there is the question of whether we have to pay a premium to get someone to pitch for a losing team in the AL East. Still, when the bidding gets to $7M for Lyles I would rather just roll with internal guys. 

[geschinger]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And there is the question of whether we have to pay a premium to get someone to pitch for a losing team in the AL East. Still, when the bidding gets to $7M for Lyles I would rather just roll with internal guys. 

Yep, but with the payroll as low as it is, on short term deals I think it's fine to overpay.  I would have rather seen them overpay on others though. 

In response to another thread yesterday I was looking at Houston when they were in a similar stage of their rebuild that baltimore.  They signed 9 FA pitchers over two years that made up a huge chunk of their overall payroll.  All but 2 were one year deals the longest being 3 years.  With the state of the Orioles pitching staff it's something they probably should have considered.  It would not have hurt them going forward.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

They’re assuming that the “watchable product” this year is Rutschman and Rodriguez. No need to spend because of these two. 

 

[spiritof66]

The premise for the article and the F grade is that the Orioles are trying to put together a team that will win more games. A lot of the comments accept that premise.

I don't think that's what the Orioles are up to.

Here's how I look at it. The Orioles are trying to assemble a group of major leaguers who can be painlessly replaced -- that is, without regret and without much cost --during the season, after the season, or during next season. I think when it's time to flip the switch or shift gears or whatever you want to call it, we'll start seeing those guys released or traded or demoted as young guys who have had minor league success are promoted to replace them. So there's no room for long-term contracts, other than -- possibly -- Mancini or Rutschman, or possibly Mountcastle or Means. Pretty much everyone who has had some success at AA or AAA will get a shot because each represents a valuable package: a possible major leaguer who will  be paid the minimum. There are, or will be, a few veterans who have value, and I have no way to predict whether they'll be retained if there's a cheaper alternative who may be ready to promote.) hat's the way I can make the most sense of what's going on.

The Las Vegas numbers I've seen put the over-under on the Orioles' wins at 60.5 and 61.5, the lowest in MLB. (Pittsburgh, Colorado and Arizona are the only others under 70.) But the Orioles are at or near the bottom of MLB in 2022 payroll, even with Chris Davis, and have zero obligations to current players for 2023, other than a $1 million buyout if they don't pick up the Lyles option. If you look at the past off-season in terms of making the MLB roster light on future commitments and keeping the payroll low, while having a guy to put on the field at each required position, the Orioles deserve a higher grade than F. It's certainly unfair to compare them to teams whose off-season goal was to build a team that could win a lot of games.

[Can_of_corn]

So what you are saying is that the O's, who won't even get a guaranteed top draft pick out of tanking, shouldn't receive a poor grade because they aren't bothering to put forth actual effort?

Wish I could have tried that with my math teachers growing up.

 

[Yardball85]

They absolutely, 100% deserve an F.  They can still "rebuild" without completely ignoring improvements to the MLB team.  The two are far from mutually exclusive, despite what some people want to believe.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

They absolutely, 100% deserve an F.  They can still "rebuild" without completely ignoring improvements to the MLB team.  The two are far from mutually exclusive, despite what some people want to believe.

I'd be fine with them not signing viable major league free agents if they were aggressively promoting young players to the majors. 

All they are doing is throwing as cheap a team out there for as long as they can get away with it.