Hard to argue with it.

[vab]

The bottom line here is they have to show improvement with what they have now before they can justify going after a bunch of free agents and trades for established vets. There has to be a foundation to build on. We should really start seeing that foundation coming together this year. If not then, yes, it's probably time to question the overall strategy. 

[connja]

I'm torn to be honest.  If they aren't going to sign Correa and the ilk, I'd rather see our own young guys.   one could argue it's being prudent rather than cheap.  I just would like to understand other ways the org could demonstrate commitment through investment, but of course there are caps on amatuer spending.  Maybe hire more scouts?  Wouldn't mind seeing a few of the young guys like Mountcastle and Adley get locked up.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, connja said:

I'm torn to be honest.  If they aren't going to sign Correa and the ilk, I'd rather see our own young guys.   one could argue it's being prudent rather than cheap.  I just would like to understand other ways the org could demonstrate commitment through investment, but of course there are caps on amatuer spending.  Maybe hire more scouts?  Wouldn't mind seeing a few of the young guys like Mountcastle and Adley get locked up.

This is what I'm most interested in seeing as the Orioles haven't done this in the past. I'm hoping that changes now as more talented players rise up from the farm system in the next few years. 

Not that I'm advocating for it, but signing your young star players to early contract extensions can also make them more valuable as trade chips. 

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, vab said:

The bottom line here is they have to show improvement with what they have now before they can justify going after a bunch of free agents and trades for established vets. There has to be a foundation to build on. We should really start seeing that foundation coming together this year. If not then, yes, it's probably time to question the overall strategy. 

You don't think they could have spent some money on the rotation this offseason?  

I suppose they did with Lyles.  

Let me rephrase:  You don't think they could have done better than Lyles when adding to the rotation this offseason?

[Il BuonO]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You don't think they could have spent some money on the rotation this offseason?  

I suppose they did with Lyles.  

Let me rephrase:  You don't think they could have done better than Lyles when adding to the rotation this offseason?

The answer to both questions is yes.

[Sports Guy]

2 hours ago, vab said:

The bottom line here is they have to show improvement with what they have now before they can justify going after a bunch of free agents and trades for established vets. There has to be a foundation to build on. We should really start seeing that foundation coming together this year. If not then, yes, it's probably time to question the overall strategy. 

Rutschman, GRod, Mullins, Mountcastle, Means and Hays is a foundation..not to mention what you have coming behind them.

The mentality that “we aren’t there yet” really makes no sense to me.

If you believe in our young talent and you believe that Elias is doing a good job than you should believe that we have a foundation now and that foundation is only getting better.

Saying we have to wait means you don’t believe in that.  And yea I know, you will say, well we want to see it be good first.  Ok but why?  Do you or do you not believe in them, the plan, the organization, etc…?

For me, I do.  I believe in everything here except ownership but even they can’t screw up players from developing.  So, if you fall into the category of believing in what we have, why wait? 

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Rutschman, GRod, Mullins, Mountcastle, Means and Hays is a foundation..not to mention what you have coming behind them.

The mentality that “we aren’t there yet” really makes no sense to me.

If you believe in our young talent and you believe that Elias is doing a good job than you should believe that we have a foundation now and that foundation is only getting better.

Saying we have to wait means you don’t believe in that.  And yea I know, you will say, well we want to see it be good first.  Ok but why?  Do you or do you not believe in them, the plan, the organization, etc…?

For me, I do.  I believe in everything here except ownership but even they can’t screw up players from developing.  So, if you fall into the category of believing in what we have, why wait? 

I believe in our young talent, but perhaps it needs to mature a bit first.   I look at the 2009 O’s.    They already  had BRob, Markakis and Jones on the roster.   That year they debuted Wieters, Reimold, Bergesen, Hernandez, Berken, Tillman and Matusz.   They also added Koji.   All that got them four fewer wins than the year before.    There was some talent, but they just weren’t ready.   

[Sports Guy]

57 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I believe in our young talent, but perhaps it needs to mature a bit first.   I look at the 2009 O’s.    They already  had BRob, Markakis and Jones on the roster.   That year they debuted Wieters, Reimold, Bergesen, Hernandez, Berken, Tillman and Matusz.   They also added Koji.   All that got them four fewer wins than the year before.    There was some talent, but they just weren’t ready.   

So glad we waited until 2012!

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

You don't think they could have spent some money on the rotation this offseason?  

I suppose they did with Lyles.  

Let me rephrase:  You don't think they could have done better than Lyles when adding to the rotation this offseason?

A major piece of the Orioles winning between 2012-16 is they made shrewd acquisitions and trades. The starting pitching got a boost from Wei Yin Chen and Miguel Gonzalez, and without adding those two players the 2012 O's don't make the playoffs. 

I'm not expecting a .500 team this year, but we haven't seen these type of moves by the current team to compete. I know the money will supposedly be there to add talent when the time is right, but I'll believe it when it happens at this point. 

[waroriole]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I believe in our young talent, but perhaps it needs to mature a bit first.   I look at the 2009 O’s.    They already  had BRob, Markakis and Jones on the roster.   That year they debuted Wieters, Reimold, Bergesen, Hernandez, Berken, Tillman and Matusz.   They also added Koji.   All that got them four fewer wins than the year before.    There was some talent, but they just weren’t ready.   

The foundational team of 2008 had a lot of major league players on it. Some were past their prime on offense, but the only weak positions were SS and 1B. The pitching was bad but not at the level of 2021. Them taking a step back in 2009 was more understandable. If we don’t improve by 10-15 wins this year, I’d be surprised and start questioning what we have as a manager. 

[Three Run Homer]

6 hours ago, Frobby said:

The pitching was far worse than I expected, mostly because none of the young guys stepped up.   They will need to do it this year for the record to show significant improvement.   

But why should we expect any of these pitchers to step up at the MLB level if they have no track record of success at AAA?   Why not sign some cheap stopgaps to one year contracts and make the young guys earn their way into the MLB rotation?  Given the way our starting pitching looks, I think 100 losses is not just possible but likely this season.     

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Three Run Homer said:

But why should we expect any of these pitchers to step up at the MLB level if they have no track record of success at AAA?   Why not sign some cheap stopgaps to one year contracts and make the young guys earn their way into the MLB rotation?  Given the way our starting pitching looks, I think 100 losses is not just possible but likely this season.     

Depends on Grayson and Hall…but I also think the group we have already seen can get collectively better.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Three Run Homer said:

But why should we expect any of these pitchers to step up at the MLB level if they have no track record of success at AAA?   Why not sign some cheap stopgaps to one year contracts and make the young guys earn their way into the MLB rotation?  Given the way our starting pitching looks, I think 100 losses is not just possible but likely this season.     

The simplest answer is you only have so many slots on the 40.

You can't have five guys on the 40 sitting at AAA paying their dues.

A guy goes on the 40 he has to be able to come up and help the big league club whenever the club needs it.

[Frobby]

Well, David Schoenfield generously gave us a D-:

I'm willing to cut the Orioles a little slack because rebuilding in the AL East is a tough road, and the front office's focus has been developing a farm system that should pay dividends in 2022 with Adley Rutschman and Grayson Rodriguez. But Rougned Odor? How can you claim you care about the big league roster when you're signing a guy who hit .202/.286/.379 in 2021 and has a .280 OBP since 2017?

You hear people say, "Oh, the lineup isn't so bad." Actually, it is; the Orioles were 14th in the AL in runs scored. At some point, you need to show progress, even if that means spending a little money to win 70 games instead of losing 110.

Grade: D-

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/33594705/did-your-team-get-an-f-mlb-offseason-grades-all-30-teams

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, David Schoenfield generously gave us a D-:

I'm willing to cut the Orioles a little slack because rebuilding in the AL East is a tough road, and the front office's focus has been developing a farm system that should pay dividends in 2022 with Adley Rutschman and Grayson Rodriguez. But Rougned Odor? How can you claim you care about the big league roster when you're signing a guy who hit .202/.286/.379 in 2021 and has a .280 OBP since 2017?

You hear people say, "Oh, the lineup isn't so bad." Actually, it is; the Orioles were 14th in the AL in runs scored. At some point, you need to show progress, even if that means spending a little money to win 70 games instead of losing 110.

Grade: D-

https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/33594705/did-your-team-get-an-f-mlb-offseason-grades-all-30-teams

Has Elias actually made that claim?

If so that's a pretty bold stance.