Kyle Stowers 2022

[owknows]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I noticed your mention of his OPS vs Lefties.

That was a fair assessment so I didn't question it.

Citing batting average, specifically mentioning a one point advantage in BA he had over a far superior hitter is questionable.

Personally I think McKenna has been adequate with the bat this season.

But basing your discussion around batting average isn't a good way to illustrate that.

 

His batting average was one of several points made.

And one I included because I found his advantage a little surprising.

Like most here, I recognize that batting average is a limited statistic.

But certainly it is not without merit.

[seak05]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I'll disagree with you here.  McKenna is looking better but I don't think he's a better hitter than Odor.  Play him everyday and I think he sinks more than swims.  Unless he's changed his swing and I missed it.  

McKenna has been a better hitter then Odor this year, now maybe if McKenna played as often as Odor does, his batting stats would crater, but I doubt his statistics against lefties would be as bad as Odor's statistics against everyone. That said, baseball isn't just about hitting, McKenna's defense and base-running are superior to Odor's. Using fwar (I had bwar up earlier) McKenna is at 1.1 and Odor -.1, so no I don't think it's fair to lump a player in who has put up 1.1 WAR  for the Orioles this year, with three guys who have negative values. 

[waroriole]

14 minutes ago, seak05 said:

1. Baseball is more then hitting, catching the ball matters too 

2. McKenna has a near .700 ops, he’s not that poor a hitter

3. in limited plate appearances he’s managed to post .8 war and is higher then Santander (barely) and mountcastle  among others in WAA

sending down players who are helping you win seems dumb to me…but guess you haven’t noticed 

But for the things he does well, we already have someone who does them better. The first person I’d send down is Nevin, but I’d keep Phillips before McKenna. 
 

 

[seak05]

2 minutes ago, waroriole said:

But for the things he does well, we already have someone who does them better. The first person I’d send down is Nevin, but I’d keep Phillips before McKenna. 
 

 

?? McKenna has been a better hitter then Phillips this year (and using bref bc that's the sight I'm on) they're both at .3 dWar. McKenna this year has been much more valuable overall. What statistically are you using to justify this position. 

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, seak05 said:

?? McKenna has been a better hitter then Phillips this year (and using bref bc that's the sight I'm on) they're both at .3 dWar. McKenna this year has been much more valuable overall. What statistically are you using to justify this position. 

I said the things McKenna does well. Not sure why you thought I was referring to hitting. McKenna can field and is a decent base runner. Phillips is much better at those things.  You don’t keep a 5th OF because they’re a slightly less terrible hitter. 

[seak05]

4 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I said the things McKenna does well. Not sure why you thought I was referring to hitting. McKenna can field and is a decent base runner. Phillips is much better at those things.  You don’t keep a 5th OF because they’re a slightly less terrible hitter. 

McKenna has been a much better overall player this year then Phillips, both according to bwar and fwar, you have cited exactly nothing to make a case for why Phillips is better then McKenna

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, seak05 said:

McKenna has been a much better overall player this year then Phillips, both according to bwar and fwar, you have cited exactly nothing to make a case for why Phillips is better then McKenna

Ryan McKenna vs Lefties .924 OPS (team best)

Brett Phillips OPS vs Lefties .057

 

[waroriole]

2 minutes ago, seak05 said:

McKenna has been a much better overall player this year then Phillips, both according to bwar and fwar, you have cited exactly nothing to make a case for why Phillips is better then McKenna

I mean I thought it was clear, but if you need it spelled out: 

1. If Stowers is called up, it’s deciding who is better suited as a 5th OF (defensive replacement and PR). Phillips is better at both. 

2. McKenna is a better hitter this year. He’s never hit the way Phillips did last year. And judging by his inability to hit the most pedestrian of fastball without cheating, he never will. Look at their BABIP this year. McKenna .397 and Phillips .245. You think that trend continues?

McKenna has had some success, for him, this year in limited ABs. Expecting that level of production to continue is not a good idea. 
 

[waroriole]

6 minutes ago, owknows said:

Ryan McKenna vs Lefties .924 OPS (team best)

Brett Phillips OPS vs Lefties .057

 

LOL does he qualify for the team lead with only 38 PAs? Phillips only has 37. That’s quite the SSS you’ve built your decision on. 

[seak05]

8 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I mean I thought it was clear, but if you need it spelled out: 

1. If Stowers is called up, it’s deciding who is better suited as a 5th OF (defensive replacement and PR). Phillips is better at both. 

2. McKenna is a better hitter this year. He’s never hit the way Phillips did last year. And judging by his inability to hit the most pedestrian of fastball without cheating, he never will. Look at their BABIP this year. McKenna .397 and Phillips .245. You think that trend continues?

McKenna has had some success, for him, this year in limited ABs. Expecting that level of production to continue is not a good idea. 
 

So to sum it up, you’ve just decided phillips is a vastly superior defender/base runner (despite the same dwar), and since phillips has hit better in the past he’s just magically better going forward then a younger player who hit well at triple a and is hitting better this year. And therefore even though one player has been overall significantly better this year, they should be the one sent down.

oh and also stowers and mullins are both left handed (Santander is switch), so I’d probably prefer my backup of to hit rh & hit lefties well.

(phillips is an excellent Def of, but mckenna is also very good) 

[seak05]

Vavra btw is also a left handed hitter who can play of. I just don’t think a defense only player is that valuable if you have other players who can do basically the same thing, but offer more elsewhere 

[waroriole]

3 minutes ago, seak05 said:

So to sum it up, you’ve just decided phillips is a vastly superior defender/base runner (despite the same dwar), and since phillips has hit better in the past he’s just magically better going forward then a younger player who hit well at triple a and is hitting better this year. And therefore even though one player has been overall significantly better this year, they should be the one sent down.

oh and also stowers and mullins are both left handed (Santander is switch), so I’d probably prefer my backup of to hit rh & hit lefties well.

(phillips is an excellent Def of, but mckenna is also very good) 

I’m not sure why you seem to be taking this personally. I’m telling you what the stats say, and why they’re each likely to go in the opposite direction. The RH hitter argument makes sense, if we’re talking about a 4th OF. For our situation, it’s irrelevant because I don’t expect either to get many starts if Stowers is called up. The person will primarily serve as a PR and defensive replacement. Something we agree that Phillips is better at. 

[seak05]

3 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I’m not sure why you seem to be taking this personally. I’m telling you what the stats say, and why they’re each likely to go in the opposite direction. The RH hitter argument makes sense, if we’re talking about a 4th OF. For our situation, it’s irrelevant because I don’t expect either to get many starts if Stowers is called up. The person will primarily serve as a PR and defensive replacement. Something we agree that Phillips is better at. 

Honestly, it seems like you have some sort of vendetta against McKenna, or just really like Phillips. I don't agree that Phillips is a much better defender and baserunner, and you haven't provided any data to back your point up. I've said multiple times sending down players with positive WAR/WAA is silly to keep guys who offer negative value. And even if Stowers is called up, and is offensively great right away, the likelihood is he's rotating at RF/DH with Santander (and hopefully some 1b too). You're still going to need defensive days off for Mullins/Hays...and I'd far prefer those starts go to McKenna then Phillips, because he's been the overall better player. 

No player on the roster, is never going to hit

[seak05]

Anyways using baseball savant, McKenna is actually the faster player then Phillips. But Phillips has better reaction time and burst in the OF (McKenna takes better routes). So while McKenna is a very good def OF Phillips is better, but McKenna is the better baserunner. 

(OAA fielding is very hard for McKenna bc he actually doesn't have enough attempts to qualify)

[Sports Guy]

Imo, the optimal OF for the Orioles right now is Stowers, Mullins and Santander.  Hays should go on the IL.  When he is healthy, those 4 can rotate while also seeing time at DH.

McKenna should be the 5th OFer.