Luis Barrera vs McKenna vs Stewart at 4th OFer

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

All you keep doing is mentioning speed grades.  I thought we were talking about building a baseball team, not a track team?

Did you watch Mateo score from 2nd yesterday?

[wildcard]

38 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think you are significantly over-concerned with left field and the need for speed there. Don't think it will play out quite as you think. Sure it's nice to have speed in that position at home, but a true outfielder like Diaz, despite his lack of speed, will be fine out there for the most part.

Sure, Diaz can turn and play it off the base of the wall.  Or play so deep that  balls are base hits in front of him.   Hays, McKenna or Barrera probably catch a lot of those balls.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Did you watch Mateo score from 2nd yesterday?

So?  I like speed but they need to be able to play the game well for it to matter.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

So?  I like speed but they need to be able to play the game well for it to matter.

Well said.   Give me a slow guy with a .400 OBP over a fast guy with a .300 OBP.   And in the OF, yes speed matters but ability to judge fly balls, get a good jump and take good routes also matter a lot.   I thought it was interesting that Fangraphs gave Barrera a 70 speed grade but only a 45 fielding grade.   That leads me to think he’s not the most instinctive outfielder around.  

[interloper]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Sure, Diaz can turn and play it off the base of the wall.  Or play so deep that  balls are base hits in front of him.   Hays, McKenna or Barrera probably catch a lot of those balls.

I don't disagree, I just think that if you have 2 COF, and one is a defense first guy and one is an offense first guy who makes the routine plays (i.e.: NOT a Stewart or Trumbo type, but more of a Diaz type), I want the offense guy. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Well said.   Give me a slow guy with a .400 OBP over a fast guy with a .300 OBP.   And in the OF, yes speed matters but ability to judge fly balls, get a good jump and take good routes also matter a lot.   I thought it was interesting that Fangraphs gave Barrera a 70 speed grade but only a 45 fielding grade.   That leads me to think he’s not the most instinctive outfielder around.  

That appears to be wrong.

From Athletics Top 30 Prospect/ MLB Pipeline

A slasher from line to line, Barrera is a pure hitter. Although there isn’t a ton of power there, he brings a level left-handed stroke and the ability to hit line drives to all fields. His plus speed comes with good instincts on the bases, and his solid defense allows him to play all three outfield spots.

Barrera plays with a lot of passion and brings excitement. He does not walk much, but he also does not strike out at a high rate due to great hand-eye coordination. Barrera will chase sometimes, which could expose him at the higher levels, though he seems determined to work on improving that area of his game. Once that comes, Barrera should develop into a starter at the big league level.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/athletics/

What he lacks is power.

 

 

[interloper]

Remember Diaz played a lot of CF, as has Stowers. They're bigger guys but they should be more athletic than, say, Mancini. 

Anyway, I still like this thread because it shows that Stewart and McKenna are getting to be fringey at this point to where you'd consider replacing certainly Stewart, but also McKenna. 

But I still would like to see a bit more of McKenna - there's no huge need to looks for 4th OF upgrades until there's a trade perhaps. 

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That appears to be wrong.

From Athletics Top 30 Prospect/ MLB Pipeline

A slasher from line to line, Barrera is a pure hitter. Although there isn’t a ton of power there, he brings a level left-handed stroke and the ability to hit line drives to all fields. His plus speed comes with good instincts on the bases, and his solid defense allows him to play all three outfield spots.

I’d call it a difference of opinion.  Fangraphs calls him “a comfortable defender at any outfield position.”   Not sure how that squares with their 45 grade, but it suggests that he’s competent, not plus, despite his speed.  I’m not choosing sides.   It’s not like I’ve seen the guy play.  

[Sports Guy]

16 minutes ago, wildcard said:

That appears to be wrong.

From Athletics Top 30 Prospect/ MLB Pipeline

A slasher from line to line, Barrera is a pure hitter. Although there isn’t a ton of power there, he brings a level left-handed stroke and the ability to hit line drives to all fields. His plus speed comes with good instincts on the bases, and his solid defense allows him to play all three outfield spots.

Barrera plays with a lot of passion and brings excitement. He does not walk much, but he also does not strike out at a high rate due to great hand-eye coordination. Barrera will chase sometimes, which could expose him at the higher levels, though he seems determined to work on improving that area of his game. Once that comes, Barrera should develop into a starter at the big league level.

https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2021/athletics/

What he lacks is power.

 

 

So it’s wrong because you found an article that says differently?  What if that article is wrong?

Why would Oakland, a team that needs talent, is very smart and doesn’t want to spend anything, drop him to begin with if he’s so good?

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

So it’s wrong because you found an article that says differently?  What if that article is wrong?

Why would Oakland, a team that needs talent, is very smart and doesn’t want to spend anything, drop him to begin with if he’s so good?

I didn't say he was wrong.  I said he appears to be wrong.  Frobby was guessing off a 45 rating.  MLB Pipeline says he is a good outfielder.

[seak05]

Fangraphs has vavra at a 55 speed grade, same as Hays has. That’s enough speed, jumps and route matter more. 
 

I think the conversation between Barrera and McKenna is maybe interesting. But taking AB’s away from a 10-15 prospect in the O’s system for a guy who couldn’t crack the Athletics top 30 is crazy. Also the Athletics need OFers and they were willing to DFA him, should maybe tell you something  

Edited April 12, 2022 by seak05

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I didn't say he was wrong.  I said he appears to be wrong.  Frobby was guessing off a 45 rating.  MLB Pipeline says he is a good outfielder.

Like I said, I have no idea if Fangraphs’ 45 or MLB.com’s 55 defensive grade is more accurate.   Either way, his 70 speed doesn’t fully translate to his defense, but obviously 55 is better than 45.
 

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Fangraphs has vavra at a 55 speed grade, same as Hays has. That’s enough speed, jumps and route matter more. 
 

I think the conversation between Barrera and McKenna is maybe interesting. But taking AB’s away from a 10-15 prospect in the O’s system for a guy who couldn’t crack the Athletics top 30 is crazy. Also the Athletics need OFers and they were willing to DFA him, should maybe tell you something  

Barrera is #26 Prospect for the Athletics according to MLB Pipeline.    He apparently does not match up with what the Athletics want because of his lack of power.   I think they will try to trade him.  

[LookinUp]

38 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why would Oakland, a team that needs talent, is very smart and doesn’t want to spend anything, drop him to begin with if he’s so good?

This is the bottom line. 

wildcard, it's an interesting discussion in the McKenna realm, but Oakland of all teams wouldn't DFA this guy if he was much of an asset at all. I don't care what the articles say, right or wrong. His own team doesn't think he has value.

[LookinUp]

3 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Barrera is #26 Prospect for the Athletics according to MLB Pipeline.    He apparently does not match up with what the Athletics want because of his lack of power.   I think they will try to trade him.  

The Athletics of all teams aren't ignoring quantifiable value out of a single-minded focus for power.

Again, it's an interesting discussion in the McKenna context. I'm sure we could upgrade there, but with prospects on the come and a team that's going to struggle to win 65 games, I'm not sure dropping your homegrown guy for a marginal at best upgrade is exactly a good move from a chemistry perspective.