MASN announcer propaganda

[interloper]

Eh, there's still a way more positive vibe to this team than the past 2. 

• More wins vs AL East opponents so far
• Better run differential than 2021
• Much better bullpen
• Presence of Adley
• Dugout is more fun
• More comeback wins
• Good amount of walkoffs so far

All of these things make the team feel more exciting and better than they probably are. But it's undeniably a more fun squad than the previous 2 years.

All that said, I know everyone is down right now (including me) about Grayson. And heck, even Krehbiel who is a vital piece of the 'pen (though I think our depth is pretty good to cover it - call up Vespi!). Adley isn't hitting yet. There's some guys on the farm that we wish were doing better. Zimmermann hasn't been great lately. Etc. There are certainly reasons to be bummed/agitated. 

[drjohnnyfeva]

9 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

The Grayson injury is the kick in the nuts after you've been punched in the gut and mouth continually as an Orioles fan. Is it only a delay, sure. But I'm tired of delays. I'm tired of prospects coming up and not performing. Where is a our rookie that comes out the gate like he belongs?

Where are our guys just cruising through the minors like they know they will be productive big leaguers. Henderson? Ok, who else? Stowers? Streaky as all heck but I do like his talent. Hall? Great talent, injury set him back especially command wise. Cowser?? Kjerstad?? lol Even Mayo who looked so amazing last year looks a bit lost in Aberdeen. 

Pitching? You want pitching prospects when Elias refuses to draft them? Good luck finding a guy to get excited about after Rajsich's picks.

Elias has had three top 5 #1 picks and has Rutschman, Kjerstad and Cowser to show for it to go along with historically bad losing across baseball since he took over. 

How deep is the system? I have a one pitch reliever #15 right now (not including the FCL and DSL guys).

But hey, this team has fight and has come so far!! lol

Yep.  Yep.  Yep. Yep.  And yep.

The announcing is the same shtick that we heard from about 1999 thru 2011.  "They really look like a team that could make some noise this year."  Home town cheerleaders.

Baloney.  They still stink.

I jokingly said when this rebuild started that my oldest would be graduating HS before we saw any progress.  She starts HS this year.  Seems like we're on track. Orioles in 2026, baby!  First season to break .500, seems more likely.

[eddie83]

I do have some fears of a 2011 repeat. 2010 the team had that great finish under Buck. The position players were building. Added Hardy before 2011. Team started out 6-1, struggled some and then eventually were 30-31. Then they go 17-46 and all the buzz about where the team was headed disappeared. Buck was still popular but no longer a savior. The pitching didn’t keep them competitive. 
 

They finished strong in September. Added Davis that August and of course Manny was on the way in 12. 
 

Yes I know the 12 team overachieved based on run differential. That was more so the first half. The whole key was Chen and Hammel. The young arms like Arrieta, Matusz and Hunter all failed as staters. Then in the second half Tillman and Gonzales stepped up. Bottom line is DD added Chen, Hammel and Gonzales. Without them that team goes nowhere. 
 

Elias needs to dramatically improve the rotation next year. Hopefully Grod will be a big part of that. That doesn’t mean you just bank on him and someone like Hall. Help needs to come from the outside. It’s on the GM.  

[Tony-OH]

4 hours ago, Finisher said:

Meanwhile TB cranks out stud arms like it's nothing. Find it hilarious that no matter how many "can't miss" guys fail, people always attach the same hope to the next wave. I mean, your competition is drafting and developing guys too and most are better at development (until we see otherwise). So are you even really gaining ground?

Tampa is certainly on a whole other level, but I see rookies all over the place show up and do well right away. Not Orioles prospects. For all the development we're hearing about with technology, who has been developed by Elias and shown up and done well with the Orioles at the major league level?

Rutschman, 24, was the first draft pick who was developed by Elias' staff. I think he's going to eventually be fine, but he was not rushed to the major leagues and he's started off slashing .163/.265/.233/.498 in his first 49 PAs.

Kyle Bradish , 26, was basically developed by Elias's crew, he's put up a 6.82 ERA in his first 7 starts over 33 IP.

So really the two top prospects that have been developed by Elias are not young, were not rushed, neither have dine very well at the major league level right away. Now they both may still end up quality major leaguers, but why are his prospects not prepared to do well right away when they are promoted to the show?

Are they the only top prospects to struggle initially around baseball, absolutely not, but maybe just have one show up and do well right away?

 

  

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Can’t remember how many times this year I have seen cliches like “that’s a game they don’t win last year”.  It might be the dumbest cliche ever in sports because teams win “games like that” every damn year.  Big comebacks, pitching duels, etc…it always happens.

People keep saying how exciting this team is.  Is it?  There are no SP you get amped to watch except maybe Bradish .  Most of the players on the team you only get excited about because they are Orioles.  It’s not that the player is some overly exciting guy and can carry a franchise. 
 

But hey, when the goal is to lose and you choose (yes this is a choice by ownership) to not spend and to not out a good product on the field, this is what you get.  I was the crazy one for thinking they should be trying to win in 2022 and that money should be spent.  I guess I’m just impatient.  Oh well.

Don't get me started on that BS. You are 100% correct. These team employees are so sickingly pushing this narrative that this is some special team, even in their post game interviews with the players who have been very tentative in their responses to these Hunteresque questions that come from the MASN announcers. 

Hell, even Palmer is starting to sound like a homer. It's like they are all under the orders to push how exciting this team is even though it's only better than the historically awful teams the Orioles have fielded since 2018. 

It's like, "Look, we don't historically suck, so look how great we are!"

 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

Tony: if you were GM right now, what would you do presently? I would love to hear!

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Don't get me started on that BS. You are 100% correct. These team employees are so sickingly pushing this narrative that this is some special team, even in their post game interviews with the players who have been very tentative in their responses to these Hunteresque questions that come from the MASN announcers. 

Hell, even Palmer is starting to sound like a homer. It's like they are all under the orders to push how exciting this team is even though it's only better than the historically awful teams the Orioles have fielded since 2018. 

It's like, "Look, we don't historically suck, so look how great we are!"

 

And your favorite platform, Twitter, is full of people buying into this.  It’s really incredible to see it.  Social media, as awful as it is, can be an extremely interesting study into the mind of the person.  
 

I have paid more attention to Os and Ravens talk on Twitter over the last year than I ever did before and it’s really incredible to see how the mind works of some of these people.  
 

I mean, for years being involved on message boards, you get a good feel of it but the boards I have been on have largely been made up of knowledgeable people.  But the Elias tenure has changed people and while there are plenty of reasons to be positive because of what he and his team has accomplished, the overall big picture is still not great but the way people have bought into it is a sight to see.

[eddie83]

21 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Sure, Akin, Tate and Lopez have had great turnaround and Bautistia and Perez have been nice additions to the pen. Despite this, we still have a worse winning percentage than 2020. 

All I'm saying here is the propaganda being spread about how exciting this team is and all the great additions have shown to be just that, propaganda. 

Honestly, If the minor leaguers were doing better you could be more excited, but it's really been a disappointing year down there and when you add that to another last place Orioles team, this excitement spun up by a few walk off wins is not backed up by the winning percentage overall.

I get it that fans want to be fired up, hell, I want to be fired up, but I just can't as long as Elias continues to stack his major league roster with AAAA-types.

 

Do you think if 2020 plays out normally the team stays on that winning %? 
 

I don’t think 2020 is a fair year to compare to this year. I do agree with some of what you are saying. Not saying that. 
 

At the end of the day whether the media will say it or not there is a bullseye on Elias’ back in regards to the pitching staff. He has deliberately picked position players. He inherited the two best pitching prospects. It’s on him to figure out how to build this rotation. The position player core is just about at a time where they should collectively be peaking in the next 1/2 years. The question is whether he can build a staff and fill the other spots in the lineup. 
 

I’m still excited about GRod. Henderson is doing great. I wish Cowser would get going. Westburg is showing signs. 
 

Elias will need to show what he can do. It’s really at this point on him.  

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

Propaganda is a big part of how the media operates. You don’t expect a team to criticize itself. It’s why if the media does it’s job properly they can be so valuable. Teams want to control the narrative. Media needs to push back on that. 
 

I don’t allow the media to influence my thoughts nor MASN. That said this team is more entertaining. They are highly flawed. Not ready to win but it’s much better. 

This is not a criticism, but you are the exact fan this propaganda targets. You don't think you are influenced, but you certainly have been. Is this team better than the horrid team Elias put on the field last year, sure, but he's 4 years into his rebuild and his team is in last place once again with a .415 winning percentage on June 2nd.

So who is coming up from the minors that is going to help this team win this year? Stowers? Perhaps, but what prospect has come up under Elias and done well right away? How much better does Stowers make the Orioles over Mancini or Santander, because that's who he would take PAs from?

Meanwhile he's playing the AAA carousel with AAAA guy like Bannon, Nevin and several pitchers like Lakins, Diplan, Sedlock, Lowther, etc.

The Orioles have controlled the media to the point they now control the narrative. All of the announcers, including Palmer (so disappointing after being a person of reason for so long) are on board to push this exciting narrative. 

Sorry, I don't find it exciting to lose close games because the teams bullpen was mismanaged or your all-star center fielder gives up on a ball he should have caught early in the game that cost the Orioles. 

This team is full of guys who have history of losing. That's what they've done in the minor leagues and what they've done at the major league level. 

This Orioles need a core of players who know how to win. Players who expect to win. Not players who play at .415 baseball but share homer necklaces and point to the dugout after a two out single down by 6 runs in the 9th.

 

 

[Frobby]

57 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Yea I’m not really seeing the “more enjoyable to watch” stuff.  

It’s true that they’ve been more enjoyable to watch - so far.   Simply put, they’ve been in the games much more frequently.   Seven blowout losses in 53 games (13%) vs. 44 in 162 (27%) last year.   Even in the short season where we had a misleadingly half-decent record, we were blown out in 12 out of 60 games.  So, the games are more enjoyable because more frequently we either do win or have a chance to win.  

That said, I’m not at all comfortable that this will continue.   The pitching is fraying and bad pitching is what causes blowouts and unenjoyable baseball.   
 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Do you think if 2020 plays out normally the team stays on that winning %? 
 

I don’t think 2020 is a fair year to compare to this year. I do agree with some of what you are saying. Not saying that. 
 

At the end of the day whether the media will say it or not there is a bullseye on Elias’ back in regards to the pitching staff. He has deliberately picked position players. He inherited the two best pitching prospects. It’s on him to figure out how to build this rotation. The position player core is just about at a time where they should collectively be peaking in the next 1/2 years. The question is whether he can build a staff and fill the other spots in the lineup. 
 

I’m still excited about GRod. Henderson is doing great. I wish Cowser would get going. Westburg is showing signs. 
 

Elias will need to show what he can do. It’s really at this point on him.  

I only pointed to 2020 because Newman in her best homerism said how much better this team is than the 2020 team (when she started to cover them). I agree that 2020 team was probably much worse than .417.

I'm just very disappointed in the state of the major league team and minor league system 4 years into Elias/Sig's reign.

I thought I saw the light but it appears it's another train coming.

[UMDTerrapins]

I don’t like one bit that they are exerting control over media coverage. Hate it in fact. That said, they are trying to sell a product. It doesn’t help engage viewers or boost attendance to say “this team really isn’t that good”. I also believe that a lot of success in any sport comes from the mental component, in varying forms. The 1989 team had a special aura to it that came from believing their own hype. And the fans bought into it too. This team does seem to have a different confidence in themselves than they’ve had in a number of years. So much of that comes from not having a bad/gassed bullpen. My point is that the hype and the narrative that seems to be annoying a number if you doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Hope is a good thing. 

[glenn__davis]

31 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Tampa is certainly on a whole other level, but I see rookies all over the place show up and do well right away. Not Orioles prospects. For all the development we're hearing about with technology, who has been developed by Elias and shown up and done well with the Orioles at the major league level?

Rutschman, 24, was the first draft pick who was developed by Elias' staff. I think he's going to eventually be fine, but he was not rushed to the major leagues and he's started off slashing .163/.265/.233/.498 in his first 49 PAs.

Kyle Bradish , 26, was basically developed by Elias's crew, he's put up a 6.82 ERA in his first 7 starts over 33 IP.

So really the two top prospects that have been developed by Elias are not young, were not rushed, neither have dine very well at the major league level right away. Now they both may still end up quality major leaguers, but why are his prospects not prepared to do well right away when they are promoted to the show?

Are they the only top prospects to struggle initially around baseball, absolutely not, but maybe just have one show up and do well right away?

 

  

I think a lot of what you're saying in this thread regarding MASN is fine, but I I don't think the above is a fair criticism.  You're talking about 2 guys.  You yourself said a few weeks back that you expected Adley to have an adjustment period.  He's had some good ABs, some bad luck, but overall you can see the talent.   Bradish has always been a guy that has potential but some red flags/bullpen risk as well.  They've both had some really good flashes in their short time here.

So basically because 2 guys have shown up and haven't been great right away we're asking questions about why they weren't ready?  Just way too premature.

[Surhoffan17]

5 hours ago, Finisher said:

Meanwhile TB cranks out stud arms like it's nothing. Find it hilarious that no matter how many "can't miss" guys fail, people always attach the same hope to the next wave. I mean, your competition is drafting and developing guys too and most are better at development (until we see otherwise). So are you even really gaining ground?

Great point.  I was looking through my old baseball cards and came across a bunch of #1 prospect cards (from the late 80's and early 90's) and out of at least a dozen...one or two eventually became decent.  Prospects flop ALL the time.  It happens.  While it's too early to write off Cowser, Westburg (who is hitting better lately), DL Hall and even Kjerstad, it is very discouraging to see these struggles.  

Question is, can we actually spend money this offseason?  It's highly unlikely that if we make the playoffs in the future, it will be with a homegrown rotation (dream rotation of Means, GRod, Hall, Bradish, and Zimmerman all working out)...just my two cents.   

[UMDTerrapins]

14 minutes ago, UMDTerrapins said:

I don’t like one bit that they are exerting control over media coverage. Hate it in fact. That said, they are trying to sell a product. It doesn’t help engage viewers or boost attendance to say “this team really isn’t that good”. I also believe that a lot of success in any sport comes from the mental component, in varying forms. The 1989 team had a special aura to it that came from believing their own hype. And the fans bought into it too. This team does seem to have a different confidence in themselves than they’ve had in a number of years. So much of that comes from not having a bad/gassed bullpen. My point is that the hype and the narrative that seems to be annoying a number if you doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Hope is a good thing. 

Yesterday after school, I was rebounding for my son who is 7 years old. He's the most competitive natured kid I've ever known. But it's destructive intensity. The worse he started shooting, the worse his attitude got, and the worse his shooting got. It snowballs quickly unless you control your self-talk. My experience in sports is that unless you have that confidence in what you're doing in the moment, you're not likely to succeed. A huge part of a coaches' job is to get his players to buy in. I think Hyde's done a good job of that. If this team is going to turn the corner, it's not just going to be about out-talenting the competition. So having people in the media and clubhouse saying and believing that this team is different is a good thing. We fans can be skeptical or buy in.....whatever. But I want the team believing in themselves.