Angelos Family Fued

[baloriole4]

4 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

 John refused to take the Bar exam, against PA's wishes. 

 

John actually took the bar exam 3 times.  John failed the bar exam 3 times

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement!!!  Relative to the first statement about "how much money", I believe ME has already told us "much of" the increase will come from Arbitration, likely including in-house assets. That puts us in the $17 to 20 M range for FA budget acquisitions. IMHO, John has given ME that budget guidance. In Louis's defense, he became an attorney and took over the law firm, John refused to take the Bar exam, against PA's wishes. IMHO, John has played Georgia. All Louis has done appears to be trying to support the law firm going forward using family assets he no longer has the power to influence, hence the lawsuit. John has apparently threatened him with : "his inheritance is at stake". I don't trust John, never have; Louis spoke eloquently at HOF ceremonies. I trust my gut, however addled.

17-20 million is hardly “aggressive” money to have available.

according to sportstrac

Arb 1 Mullins, Hays, Mateo, Tate, Voth

Arb 2 Means (2023 Salary $3 million)

Arb 3 Santander 

here is the 2022 pay table for Arb

Quote

$/WAR Arb3
Batter	$1.36	$2.13	$3.59
Starter	$1.38	$2.35	$3.34
Reliever	$1.79	$3.98	$5.61

                        Arb1    Arb2    Arb3

Though it’s wonky ….the Arb 1 guys will be getting between 1 & 2 million let’s call the average 1.5 X 5 = 7.5 million. With $2.95 for Means and $4 million for Santander. So that’s $14.5 million plus the 5.6 million owed to Crash Davis. $20.1 and then all of the pre Arb guys. 20 x $700K ….$34 million. **** I’m not including draft signing bonuses, milb players salaries, and player benefits that are weighted against the $233 million or so luxury tax or monies beyond Davis’ salary that are owed to retired guys like Bonilla as I assume that money is in escrow and already allotted. 
 

If the payroll just increased to say $85 million they should have enough for 2 key signings.

Now they could sign any combination of Santander, Mullins, Hays, Voth, Tate, Mateo, and Means to long term deal that would up the ante. 

 

[Aristotelian]

If Lou had anything to do with the Chris Davis contract he should lose the lawsuit instantly. 

[btownoriole]

10 hours ago, AnythingO's said:

I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement!!!  Relative to the first statement about "how much money", I believe ME has already told us "much of" the increase will come from Arbitration, likely including in-house assets. That puts us in the $17 to 20 M range for FA budget acquisitions. IMHO, John has given ME that budget guidance. In Louis's defense, he became an attorney and took over the law firm, John refused to take the Bar exam, against PA's wishes. IMHO, John has played Georgia. All Louis has done appears to be trying to support the law firm going forward using family assets he no longer has the power to influence, hence the lawsuit. John has apparently threatened him with : "his inheritance is at stake". I don't trust John, never have; Louis spoke eloquently at HOF ceremonies. I trust my gut, however addled.

That’s interesting, as I’ve come away feeling the exact opposite - John is the one to be trusted and Louis has the meddling instincts of his father.  But it could be because I’ve always wanted an owner with a philosophy like John’s - not one like Louis constantly hounding the GM about the moves he’s making.

[Frobby]

On 9/8/2022 at 7:41 AM, btownoriole said:

That’s interesting, as I’ve come away feeling the exact opposite - John is the one to be trusted and Louis has the meddling instincts of his father.  But it could be because I’ve always wanted an owner with a philosophy like John’s - not one like Louis constantly hounding the GM about the moves he’s making.

Me too, and the proof is in the pudding.  Elias was left to do his job, put the O’s through a lot of pain to position them how he wanted, and now we have a good team, a strong MiL system and a ton of payroll flexibility.  If the team goes where I think it’s going the next five years, John will deserve a lot of the credit.   

[CharmCityHokie]

More updates on this debacle from MLBTradeRumors today:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/09/orioles-notes-ownership-elias-rutschman-offseason.html

Quote

Her attorneys go on to argue that general manager Mike Elias, hired in late 2018, was aggressively pursued by the Giants but instead agreed to come to Baltimore on the condition that he would report to John only because John would give Elias the freedom to handle the baseball decision without interference. “This understanding was crucial to Elias’s decision to come to the Orioles — a club long plagued by anti-organizational culture — so much so that John, with Georgia’s approval, codified these delegated rights in Elias’s employment contract,” Georgia’s attorneys wrote.

The documents go on to allege that Louis was not happy with this turn of events and demanded to be in charge of baseball operations, repeatedly contacting Elias about which baseball players the team might sign. The behaviour of Louis caused him to be excluded from a new board for the team that his mother created in August of 2020, which featured John as chairman and CEO.

 

I don't even know what to think anymore, other than it's just kind of depressing. Everything has gone right this season on the field, but now the worry of chasing Elias off because of this mess lingers on my mind.

[Too Tall]

All of this is why I have said and continue to feel that until all this mess gets straightened out, it's hard for me to envision a positive off season.  It's hard to dream about presents when Santa Claus and The Grinch are in court over who is going to be in control!

[fansince71]

We should totally be worried that someone will lure Elias away with big money this off season.  He could very well be tempted with all the upcoming drama heading his way.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, fansince71 said:

We should totally be worried that someone will lure Elias away with big money this off season.  He could very well be tempted with all the upcoming drama heading his way.

Is he under contract?

[AnythingO's]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Me too, and the proof is in the pudding.  Elias was left to do his job, put the O’s through a lot of pain to position them how he wanted, and now we have a good team, a strong MiL system and a ton of payroll flexibility.  If the team goes where I think it’s going the next five years, John will deserve a lot of the credit.   

Regardless of my negative opinion of John, I agree with all you said above. He has allowed ME to do his job and ME has delivered. Whether John opens the checkbook or not remains to be seen. I believe the caveats in ME's words tell us something about limits on future spending.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Regardless of my negative opinion of John, I agree with all you said above. He has allowed ME to do his job and ME has delivered. Whether John opens the checkbook or not remains to be seen. I believe the caveats in ME's words tell us something about limits on future spending.

I’m inclined to think the budget will be reasonable, when spending makes sense.  But we will have to wait and see.  

[oriole]

57 minutes ago, fansince71 said:

We should totally be worried that someone will lure Elias away with big money this off season.  He could very well be tempted with all the upcoming drama heading his way.

He has put the team in a ridiculously good position and he is still a young man with plenty of future endeavors to work towards. If he could be the one responsible for building a perennial winning team from a mix of ashes and nuclear waste then he would put himself in a good position to take almost any job he wanted with MLB clubs. 
 

All that to say that I imagine he’d want to see this through a bit and not jump ship over some non baseball related drama. But maybe that’s hopeful thinking 

[oriole]

23 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m inclined to think the budget will be reasonable, when spending makes sense.  But we will have to wait and see.  

If the budget has been restrained due to saving it for a competitive window then it seems like it’d make sense to start to spend now. Get some front loaded contracts or short contracts that pay a lot…that way there is room to fit the arbitration years of the guys just coming up now. But either way, the window seems to have opened and if there isn’t  a legit push for competitiveness after this year then it’d feel safe to say that it will never happen and we have all been bamboozled. 
 

 

[CharmCityHokie]

8 minutes ago, oriole said:

He has put the team in a ridiculously good position and he is still a young man with plenty of future endeavors to work towards. If he could be the one responsible for building a perennial winning team from a mix of ashes and nuclear waste then he would put himself in a good position to take almost any job he wanted with MLB clubs. 
 

All that to say that I imagine he’d want to see this through a bit and not jump ship over some non baseball related drama. But maybe that’s hopeful thinking 

I don't disagree with this at all, but I worry about the results of the family feud and if he continues to work in Baltimore with absolute control over the ballclub (other than the budget presented to him by the board). If he loses autonomy, I doubt he'll care about not seeing it through. That's just speculation on my part.

[hutchead]

Elias has done a great job on the rebuild here but I'm not sure he could do the same thing with another club with the new bargaining agreement the way it is. He was allowed to intentionally tank and get the top draft picks here but that's no longer the case. Going forward it's going to be much harder to construct a rebuild the way he did it here.