Jorge Lopez traded to Twins for pitching prospects (edit)

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, CharmCityHokie said:

If he does he'll get plenty of time to rest that arm on the bullpen bench.

I’m talking about Buck Britton, our AAA manager.   

[OriolesMagic83]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:40 PM, clutch2113 said:

   "Legit Playoff Contender???"

Like MC Hammer, the O's were too Legit to Quit.

[CharmCityHokie]

12 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’m talking about Buck Britton, our AAA manager.   

That one went right over my head but, yes, that makes much more sense in given the context of both comments.

It was a long week...I'll use that as an excuse.

[sportsfan8703]

On 8/2/2022 at 12:45 PM, Tony-OH said:

Ok, just getting caught up on this thanks to being in meetings this morning.

My take: Povich is the headliner and although I have not gone and watched him yet (I'll do that tonight) all reports is that he's adding velocity and becoming a guy. A three pitch lefty with a good change can be an effective 4th/5th starter and if his velocity continues to tick up or the Orioles are able to get more out of his change, we have ourselves a future rotation piece. 

Cano is a Cuban so he's a little old but he was dominating AAA with his 95 MPH sinker, slider , changeup combo. I need go watch him but looking quickly at his baseball savant numbers he looks like a guy who misses bats with his slider and changeup but throws his sinker way too much in the middle of the plate. Cano may need to iron some things out, but he has plus movement on his changeup and horizontal movement on the slider. If he can command the sinker better he could very well be another arm in the pen. 

Rojas is a short-lefthander who appears to have plus command and good K numbers while Nunez looks like a short-righthander who could be a late bloomer with crazy K numbers. 

Overall, no huge prospect, but four guys with promise for Lopez. 

Now, I like Lopez as a reliever and I know the Orioles would have had him for wo more seasons. But if there is one thing the Orioles have a lot of is right-hander relievers.

Bautista clearly becomes the closer, Tate fills his role with Krehbiel picking up some of Tate's roles.

This opens a spot, hopefully permanently for Vespi to be another left-handed reliever besides Perez.

So what I see if Elias adding needed pitching depth to the organization for a reliever that we have the "horses" to cover down on. 

I need to go watch Povich video tonight, but if I has the potential to be a middle of the rotation guy or even a 4th guy, that's worth 2 years of Lopez in my mind and when you add in the other potential, I can't be too upset at this trade.

 

 

 

Good insight by @Tony-OH.  
 

Knowing what we know now, you would want us to make this trade again?  
 

Keep in mind we missed the playoffs by 3 games. Lopez “struggled”, but still put up a 4.24 ERA in Minn. He signed for $3.35 million for 23’ to avoid Arb. I know he’s under control for 2024 and maybe 2025. Meanwhile we signed Givens to a $5 million deal to replace him. We also paid some of Lopez’s remaining salary last year to trade him. 
 

Was the return worth it?  While Lopez struggled, the bullpen got taxed late in the season after we left, this matters because we missed the playoffs by 3 games. 
 

My thoughts are is that I would much rather have Lopez going into the season than Givens. Lopez was cheaper too. Even though Lopez put up a 4.24 ERA in Minn after the trade, he would’ve helped us by not having to ride Khriebel so hard post trade or give innings to Jake Reed. 
 

Was Povich worth it?  Cano is on the bottom of the 40 man, and there’s been arguably better relievers than him hit the waiver wire this offseason.  The other two guys are still lotto tickets at the moment. Plus we had to sign Givens for $5 million to “replace” Lopez. 
 

This was a tough trade, and I don’t know if Elias had to make it. It’s hard to find a guy that throws an upper 90’s sinker and can get you 3+ outs sometimes. 
 

As a big Elias fan, I kind of think this was a miss, and it was selling just to sell. 
 

Thoughts?

[DirtyBird]

50 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

 

Keep in mind we missed the playoffs by 3 games. Lopez “struggled”, but still put up a 4.24 ERA in Minn.

"but still" implies that a 4.24 ERA out of a high leverage reliever isn't terrible.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

"but still" implies that a 4.24 ERA out of a high leverage reliever isn't terrible.

The vibe was that he completely imploded because he blew some saves here before the trade, then blew some saves when the twins first acquired him. I think we traded him for salary relief, but then realized that Khriebel couldn’t shoulder the same load, then scrambled a signed Givens. I don’t know if Povich was worth it. Cano and the two lotto tickets also leave a little to be desired. 

[vab]

Obviously way too early to draw any conclusions about this deal. 

[DirtyBird]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The vibe was that he completely imploded because he blew some saves here before the trade, then blew some saves when the twins first acquired him. I think we traded him for salary relief, but then realized that Khriebel couldn’t shoulder the same load, then scrambled a signed Givens. I don’t know if Povich was worth it. Cano and the two lotto tickets also leave a little to be desired. 

 

Thinking the trade was about salary relief was your first misstep.

The trade was about infusing the organization with a starting pitcher prospect that had been evaluated and our scouts were high on. Povich is currently the top starter on our prospect rankings behind Rodriguez.

[ThisIsBirdland]

52 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good insight by @Tony-OH.  
 

Knowing what we know now, you would want us to make this trade again?  
 

Keep in mind we missed the playoffs by 3 games. Lopez “struggled”, but still put up a 4.24 ERA in Minn. He signed for $3.35 million for 23’ to avoid Arb. I know he’s under control for 2024 and maybe 2025. Meanwhile we signed Givens to a $5 million deal to replace him. We also paid some of Lopez’s remaining salary last year to trade him. 
 

Was the return worth it?  While Lopez struggled, the bullpen got taxed late in the season after we left, this matters because we missed the playoffs by 3 games. 
 

My thoughts are is that I would much rather have Lopez going into the season than Givens. Lopez was cheaper too. Even though Lopez put up a 4.24 ERA in Minn after the trade, he would’ve helped us by not having to ride Khriebel so hard post trade or give innings to Jake Reed. 
 

Was Povich worth it?  Cano is on the bottom of the 40 man, and there’s been arguably better relievers than him hit the waiver wire this offseason.  The other two guys are still lotto tickets at the moment. Plus we had to sign Givens for $5 million to “replace” Lopez. 
 

This was a tough trade, and I don’t know if Elias had to make it. It’s hard to find a guy that throws an upper 90’s sinker and can get you 3+ outs sometimes. 
 

As a big Elias fan, I kind of think this was a miss, and it was selling just to sell. 
 

Thoughts?

I can't imagine the trade prevented them from making a playoff run. I agree that it taxed the bullpen a bit, but I also think it needed to happen in order to get Bautista into the closer's role too. They weren't going to demote Lopez in the middle of a playoff run, but Bautista obviously has the better stuff, both for 2022 and the future.

Lopez was overachieving, and the transition was going to occur. Best to sell at the max value point. Until we see how the more highly regarded pitchers from the deal turn out we won't know how to fully assess the trade though.

[sportsfan8703]

5 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

 

Thinking the trade was about salary relief was your first misstep.

The trade was about infusing the organization with a starting pitcher prospect that had been evaluated and our scouts were high on. Povich is currently the top starter on our prospect rankings behind Rodriguez.

Is Povich a difference maker?  I’d also say Hall is our best SP behind Povich. Also, it’s not hard to be a top SP prospect for us when we literally don’t draft pitching. 
 

I like Povich, but I’d prefer Lopez to Givens this year. I don’t think there would’ve been a problem changing roles and making Bautista the closer. 
 

I’m rooting for this deal, but it did hurt us in 22’ and 23’. I just don’t if it was worth it for a back end SP prospect that won’t be ready till 24’ and a reliever that is waiver wire variety. 

[ThisIsBirdland]

6 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is Povich a difference maker?  I’d also say Hall is our best SP behind Povich. Also, it’s not hard to be a top SP prospect for us when we literally don’t draft pitching. 
 

I like Povich, but I’d prefer Lopez to Givens this year. I don’t think there would’ve been a problem changing roles and making Bautista the closer. 
 

I’m rooting for this deal, but it did hurt us in 22’ and 23’. I just don’t if it was worth it for a back end SP prospect that won’t be ready till 24’ and a reliever that is waiver wire variety. 

Yeah, give me Givens' career track record since it also includes the pitching prospects.

It's definitely not a slam dunk though, and I see your points. Lopez did have the better season in 2022, is younger and controlled for longer.

[DirtyBird]

13 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I just don’t if it was worth it for a back end SP prospect that won’t be ready till 24’ and a reliever that is waiver wire variety. 

How did the Orioles acquire Lopez?

[Aristotelian]

Not sure why this is being bumped now but I would absolutely still do that trade. Nice job by Elias flipping a waiver guy for prospects and then signing a guy with a similar resume on a one year deal. I'd slightly rather have Lopez over Givens, but the additional prospects I think are worth it.

[EdwinRip]

That move got Bautista into the closer role.  He had a 1.63 WHIP with Minnesota and was struggling before the trade. I would argue we would have lost more games had we not made the trade.

[Frobby]

I think it was a solid trade.   Povich is a potential MOR starter and I’m intrigued by Juan Rojas, who was very good in the FCL at age 18.   We needed more young pitching depth and the move accomplished that.  Of course we’ll see how it all turns out, but I think the logic of the move was sound.