Henderson coming up this week?

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Alasdaire said:

Sure, that's a reason. But it's not one I'm giving serious credence yet. If it's bombs away from here or whatever Elias said, then I think Gunnar has to be on the opening day roster to start 2023. One thing was them doing that to Adley this year when there was no expectation of this team contending, but doing that again next year in the name of getting Gunnar another 100 ABs at AAA is different. If he swings one or two games in April, that could be the difference in getting an extra home game in October.

Maybe. Maybe not. But what for? This team isn't a true contender. I root for the O's every night and hope they get into the playoffs, but this is clearly not the year.

To help prepare him for next year.

Get the adjustment period over with now and give him a better idea of what he has to work on in the offseason.

[Alasdaire]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

To help prepare him for next year.

Get the adjustment period over with now and give him a better idea of what he has to work on in the offseason.

Take the DL Hall situation. Does he have a better idea of what he has to work on in the offseason after his cup of coffee? Or has his confidence been rocked?

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Take the DL Hall situation. Does he have a better idea of what he has to work on in the offseason after his cup of coffee? Or has his confidence been rocked?

I can see why you would compare the two.

No wait, I can't.

Very different players in different situations.

I don't think Hall was hurt at all by his cup of coffee.

 

[terpoh]

10 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Sure, that's a reason. But it's not one I'm giving serious credence yet. If it's bombs away from here or whatever Elias said, then I think Gunnar has to be on the opening day roster to start 2023. One thing was them doing that to Adley this year when there was no expectation of this team contending, but doing that again next year in the name of getting Gunnar another 100 ABs at AAA is different. If he swings one or two games in April, that could be the difference in getting an extra home game in October.

Maybe. Maybe not. But what for? This team isn't a true contender. I root for the O's every night and hope they get into the playoffs, but this is clearly not the year.

Why do people keep saying this "isnt a real contender"?

Its August 28 and the team is 1.5 games out. It is by definition a contender. Once youre in the playoffs anything can happen. They should be doing all they can to supplement this roster with minor league talent.

 

[royalstillman]

7 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Sure, that's a reason. But it's not one I'm giving serious credence yet. If it's bombs away from here or whatever Elias said, then I think Gunnar has to be on the opening day roster to start 2023. One thing was them doing that to Adley this year when there was no expectation of this team contending, but doing that again next year in the name of getting Gunnar another 100 ABs at AAA is different. If he swings one or two games in April, that could be the difference in getting an extra home game in October.

Maybe. Maybe not. But what for? This team isn't a true contender. I root for the O's every night and hope they get into the playoffs, but this is clearly not the year.

Why are they not a contender? They're a game and a half out of the wildcard the last weekend of August.The offense needs a jolt.Bring him up,and find a way to keep Stowers and him in the lineup.

[Alasdaire]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I can see why you would compare the two.

No wait, I can't.

Very different players in different situations.

I don't think Hall was hurt at all by his cup of coffee.

 

You don't see why I would compare two guys who still have things to work on staying at the level until they graduate?

Gunnar is not Vavra or Stowers. Those guys are finished products in the sense that there isn't a much higher ceiling for them to realize at the level. And calling them up now has the purpose of auditioning them to see if there's a place for them on a contending team.

Gunnar is a 20-year-old who you expect will play full-time for the better part of the next decade. As a general principle, you want to do as much as you can to ensure that long-term success. If the way the Orioles define that is by giving the player a chance to hit realistic thresholds before promotion, and if Gunnar has not yet done that, then calling him up would be rushing him by that definition.

Edit: 21.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Alasdaire

[Alasdaire]

3 minutes ago, royalstillman said:

Why are they not a contender? They're a game and a half out of the wildcard the last weekend of August.The offense needs a jolt.Bring him up,and find a way to keep Stowers and him in the lineup.

By contender I mean contending to win a world series. Which this team isn't.

[StatusDC]

10 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

By contender I mean contending to win a world series. Which this team isn't.

You're wrong. It's a crap-shoot once you make it in.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

You don't see why I would compare two guys who still have things to work on staying at the level until they graduate?

Gunnar is not Vavra or Stowers. Those guys are finished products in the sense that there isn't a much higher ceiling for them to realize at the level. And calling them up now has the purpose of auditioning them to see if there's a place for them on a contending team.

Gunnar is a 20-year-old who you expect will play full-time for the better part of the next decade. As a general principle, you want to do as much as you can to ensure that long-term success. If the way the Orioles define that is by giving the player a chance to hit realistic thresholds before promotion, and if Gunnar has not yet done that, then calling him up would be rushing him by that definition.

Not counting today's 3 hit game he's got a slash line of 274/383/490.  He doesn't have an issue with his game that necessitates an extended stay at AAA.

Any further adjustments he makes at AAA will just have to be made, again, when he gets to the majors.

The strikeouts are just an excuse to keep him down.

 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

You don't see why I would compare two guys who still have things to work on staying at the level until they graduate?

Gunnar is not Vavra or Stowers. Those guys are finished products in the sense that there isn't a much higher ceiling for them to realize at the level. And calling them up now has the purpose of auditioning them to see if there's a place for them on a contending team.

Gunnar is a 20-year-old who you expect will play full-time for the better part of the next decade. As a general principle, you want to do as much as you can to ensure that long-term success. If the way the Orioles define that is by giving the player a chance to hit realistic thresholds before promotion, and if Gunnar has not yet done that, then calling him up would be rushing him by that definition.

Edit: 21.

You are reaching.  First of all, no Hall isn’t effected by one bad outing and if he is, he’s soft as hell and has no chance at being successful in the majors.

Secondly, Gunnar is the starting SS or third baseman from day 1 next year.  He should be up now.  Start to learn, get his feet wet, etc…and he makes the current team better as they make a push for the playoffs which, whether you think they are good enough or not, they have a good shot at making it and he helps that.

[Alasdaire]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Not counting today's 3 hit game he's got a slash line of 274/383/490.  He doesn't have an issue with his game that necessitates an extended stay at AAA.

Any further adjustments he makes at AAA will just have to be made, again, when he gets to the majors.

The strikeouts are just an excuse to keep him down.

 

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You are reaching.  First of all, no Hall isn’t effected by one bad outing and if he is, he’s soft as hell and has no chance at being successful in the majors.

Secondly, Gunnar is the starting SS or third baseman from day 1 next year.  He should be up now.  Start to learn, get his feet wet, etc…and he makes the current team better as they make a push for the playoffs which, whether you think they are good enough or not, they have a good shot at making it and he helps that.

So you guys think that your take on a player coming up and taking his licks at the major league level is more finely tuned than the organization's decision that he would benefit from further at bats at AAA based on what they have seen from him every day over the course of three years. I'm going to side with the organization having a better sense for what helps Gunnar's long-term development than any of us could come up with.

Different story if Elias is truly manipulating the clock or thinks that Odor helps this team win more games, but those don't seem plausible to me.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

So you guys think that your take on a player coming up and taking his licks at the major league level is more finely tuned than the organization's decision that he would benefit from further at bats at AAA based on what they have seen from him every day over the course of three years. I'm going to side with the organization having a better sense for what helps Gunnar's long-term development than any of us could come up with.

Different story if Elias is truly manipulating the clock or thinks that Odor helps this team win more games, but those don't seem plausible to me.

Oh geez here it is.

"I've lost the argument so I'm going to play the Elias knows more than us so this has to be the right move." card.

What a shocking turn of events.

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh geez here it is.

"I've lost the argument so I'm going to play the Elias knows more than us so this has to be the right move." card.

What a shocking turn of events.

Haha. It’s like having an ace up your sleeve.   

[Alasdaire]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Oh geez here it is.

"I've lost the argument so I'm going to play the Elias knows more than us so this has to be the right move." card.

What a shocking turn of events.

Ah yes. I am shaking in my boots at the infallibility of the argument you put forward that "Any further adjustments he makes at AAA will just have to be made . . . when he gets to the majors." That's such a bulletproof argument in your favor that I shouldn't have dared suggest that in the absence of any of us knowing exactly what the player's goals are and how the organization allocates its resources in helping the player realize those goals, we should maybe default to people who do have that knowledge.

This isn't an argument that's settled by empirical evidence, friend. It's a matter of interpretation, and you are interpreting far less information than the people who disagree with you.

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:

Ah yes. I am shaking in my boots at the infallibility of the argument you put forward that "Any further adjustments he makes at AAA will just have to be made . . . when he gets to the majors." That's such a bulletproof argument in your favor that I shouldn't have dared suggest that in the absence of any of us knowing exactly what the player's goals are and how the organization allocates its resources in helping the player realize those goals, we should maybe default to people who do have that knowledge.

This isn't an argument that's settled by empirical evidence, friend. It's a matter of interpretation, and you are interpreting far less information than the people who disagree with you.

 

Except, once again, we don't know Elias' motivation.

You, friend, are assuming his motivation, based on imperfect information.

And if you didn't realize how weak your argument was, you wouldn't have invoked GM infallibility.

Do you never question a decision that Hyde makes during a game?

The O's surely had more information than we did when they signed Davis, did those of us that questioned that move just get lucky?

Do you assume that all your bosses at all your various jobs over the years were always right since they had more information?  Are our elected leaders always right because they have more information?