Do we actually need a TOR starter?

[Moose Milligan]

11 minutes ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

As I am too lazy to look it up, how did Stanley do playing SS in the 68 WS?

I understand being too lazy to, like, mow the lawn, take out the garbage, run an errand or two on a cold day, but c'mon.   All you gotta do is shuffle your fingers around on the keyboard a little bit.  

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=mickey+stanley+1968+world+series

 

[DrungoHazewood]

18 hours ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

As I am too lazy to look it up, how did Stanley do playing SS in the 68 WS?

Hit .214 with a triple, but 16 PO, 16 A, 2 errors, good for a .941 Fielding %.  So... okay.

In '69 he played 59 games at short and did reasonably well, but got the GG for playing center field.  And only played a handful of games there the rest of his career.

[Chelsea_Phil]

18 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I understand being too lazy to, like, mow the lawn, take out the garbage, run an errand or two on a cold day, but c'mon.   All you gotta do is shuffle your fingers around on the keyboard a little bit.  

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=mickey+stanley+1968+world+series

 

Dang, you did all that ?  My www search skills are sorely lacking.  Two errors and a poor BA in 7 games makes me think that was a bad move.

[EddeeEddee]

On 9/26/2022 at 2:23 PM, SteveA said:

I think we make at least one pickup of a proven quality MLB starter by free agency or trade, and we go into next year with a rotaiton of Rodriguez, Bradish, Wells, Kremer, and proven-quality-MLB-starter.    Voth would be #6 which means unless someone is hurt he is in the pen, but what are the odds that your top 5 stay 100% healthy?   I think he gets his chance to pitch for the 2023 contending Orioles.

Meanwhile, we have DL Hall in Norfolk trying to figure things out, Means recuperating for a 2nd half return, and Povich movinng his way up through the ranks.

The rotation you cite there makes me think the O's need to go after two starters in the offseason.  That doesn't mean they have to get them on the free agent market.  They get one or more via a trade.  And it doesn't mean one or both starters has to be a Verlander or deGrom (we can dream).  But it just doesn't seem reasonable to expect that Rodriguez, Bradish, Well and Kremer will all be ready Opening Day.  And if they find they have too many quality pitchers by the summer -- then that's a nice problem to have: shore up the bullpen or do a trade or two.

[EddeeEddee]

Here's a crazy trade proposal

How about Jackson Holliday, DL Hall, Colton Cowser and Coby Mayo to Miami for Sandy Alcantara.  And if the Marlins want more then we have plenty of other quality prospects to send their way.  Or is that maybe even a bit too much because it's too much of a risk for one starter?  Should we ask for another player or two from the Marlins as well and include more in the trade their way?

Think there is any chance the Marlins would trade him?  If any team has a large quantity of great prospects to trade for a young TOR guy it's the O's.  

[Sports Guy]

Bumping this thread and wondering if the Os feel similarly to this.

I get that it’s likely they are being cheap but if they sign a guy like Manaea someone who will sign for less, they may be thinking that there will be very little difference between him and say Bassitt who will command way more money. 
 

There is some logic there and I wonder if they are thinking that.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Bumping this thread and wondering if the Os feel similarly to this.

I get that it’s likely they are being cheap but if they sign a guy like Manaea someone who will sign for less, they may be thinking that there will be very little difference between him and say Bassitt who will command way more money. 
 

There is some logic there and I wonder if they are thinking that.

The thing is, if they genuinely believe they can just grab a mediocre starter and turn him into a decent pitcher, then logically they should be able to grab a guy who is already decent or even good and turn him into a really good pitcher. An ace, even. The difference, of course, is that the latter will cost them more than the former.

[Redskins Rick]

Didnt the Dodgers win a WS, with a less than stellar SP staff one year? They had so many injuries, they lost their entire 5 and their in system depth. They ended up grabbing people like Bud Norris, who actually pitched well for them.

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

The thing is, if they genuinely believe they can just grab a mediocre starter and turn him into a decent pitcher, then logically they should be able to grab a guy who is already decent or even good and turn him into a really good pitcher. An ace, even. The difference, of course, is that the latter will cost them more than the former.

I think the theory is that they can target individual pitchers with certain attributes and institute changes that improve their performance.

I am not even sure Wildcard is claiming Holt can just take any pitcher, sprinkle some fairy dust on them and say bippity boppity boo.

[eddie83]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:45 AM, eddie83 said:

I just can’t see for starters the Orioles offering a huge contract to a pitcher. Yes, I know they have talked about spending more but still. 
 

Haven’t had the time today but if I do I was going to make a new post about some players I would have interest in. 
 

We see every year how important depth is. Just look at the Dodgers. It’s nice to have swing and miss stuff in October. That said just look at how important the pen was to the Braves last year. In general I agree although it would be nice we do not need a TOR starter but it would certainly make things easier. I see a trade or mid level and/ or older less years SP via FA. 

Well. Here we are. 

[tabletop]

It all depends on how you define "TOR".

The Astros won the World Series and had 4 starters with an ERA under 3. The Phillies lost the World Series and had two pitchers most I would think are looked as "TOR" in Nola and Wheeler.

The 2021 Braves had two starters with an ERA under 3, the 2020 Dodgers had 3, the 2019 Nationals had Strasburg, Scherzer, and depending on what you thought of him at the time Corbin. Regardless of what the stat is you use to define "TOR" most of these teams all had very talented starting pitchers that could be defined as either "TOR" or the potential to be one.

If you want to win a World Series your best bet is to have a couple of guys viewed as "TOR" type guys so you can match them against your opponents top pitchers. If you want to be consistently good and in the playoff mix then you just need a group of solid and reliable guys like the 2012-16 O's had.

[eddie83]

On 9/23/2022 at 1:32 PM, eddie83 said:

-Wells is now hurt. How bad who knows. 

-You don’t want a 2012 Strasburg situation with GRod. If I was running team I would limit him early on. 
 

-Kremer deserves a spot.
-Bradish looks good now.

-I don’t see how anyone can project Hall early on next year. 
 

-Means is a mid season bonus help. 
 

- Voth is more of a 6th man to me. Watkins is AAA depth. 
 

 

The thing is we don’t know how good Kremer and Bradish will be next year. 

Same thoughts now. 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think the theory is that they can target individual pitchers with certain attributes and institute changes that improve their performance.

I am not even sure Wildcard is claiming Holt can just take any pitcher, sprinkle some fairy dust on them and say bippity boppity boo.

But the analytics!

[eddie83]

3 minutes ago, tabletop said:

It all depends on how you define "TOR".

The Astros won the World Series and had 4 starters with an ERA under 3. The Phillies lost the World Series and had two pitchers most I would think are looked as "TOR" in Nola and Wheeler.

The 2021 Braves had two starters with an ERA under 3, the 2020 Dodgers had 3, the 2019 Nationals had Strasburg, Scherzer, and depending on what you thought of him at the time Corbin. Regardless of what the stat is you use to define "TOR" most of these teams all had very talented starting pitchers that could be defined as either "TOR" or the potential to be one.

If you want to win a World Series your best bet is to have a couple of guys viewed as "TOR" type guys so you can match them against your opponents top pitchers. If you want to be consistently good and in the playoff mix then you just need a group of solid and reliable guys like the 2012-16 O's had.

Key at all times and especially now is health/availability in October. Right now the Orioles are asking a bunch of 4/5 starter types maybe a 3 to be generous plus a GRod to win in October. Now clearly we see with other teams how important a role the pen plays. Thing is another team can throw an ace at the Orioles and shut down the offense and the Orioles lose a game say 4-2. 

[Frobby]

I have a feeling that the only way the O’s will have a true TOR starter is to develop one themselves.   C’mon, Grayson!

By the way, how different do the next 6 years look if Grayson becomes a true stud, rather than say a solid no. 3 type starter?