“Orioles big game shopping & most believe it's exclusively rotation”

[oriole]

11 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Elias basically said that he isn't writing off the 2023 season.  Far from it.   He just said that you wouldn't place added emphasis on the 2023 season in expense of the 2024, 2025, 2026 seasons.   It's pretty much common sense.    He wants to create a team that is a consistent contender and winner.   You don't do that by going "all in" for 2023 if it's going to significantly weaken you 2-3 years from now.   The idea is to keep moving forward even it's not fast enough for everyone.

Let’s unpack that a little…it seems to me like you’re saying that by keeping pay roll low now, then the teams in 2-3 years will benefit from it. I hear you and I recognize that a lot of free agent contracts have a tendency to be dead weight towards the back end of the deal. What I feel that you’re not considering is that the front end of the deal would make the 2023 team better. It’s a balancing act and I would like to mention that I am happy the O’s did not do the DeGrom or Correa deals. You don’t need to be stupid with the money. But Gibson or Wacha on Opening Day is also a situation where you’re leaning hard on the “lightning in a bottle” approach. That was fine when there was no expectations but this is year one of the competitive window. There is almost nothing on the books past 2023. There is a lot of room in the pay roll to even get to the average pay roll size in baseball.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, oriole said:

Let’s unpack that a little…it seems to me like you’re saying that by keeping pay roll low now, then the teams in 2-3 years will benefit from it. I hear you and I recognize that a lot of free agent contracts have a tendency to be dead weight towards the back end of the deal. What I feel that you’re not considering is that the front end of the deal would make the 2023 team better. It’s a balancing act and I would like to mention that I am happy the O’s did not do the DeGrom or Correa deals. You don’t need to be stupid with the money. But Gibson or Wacha on Opening Day is also a situation where you’re leaning hard on the “lightning in a bottle” approach. That was fine when there was no expectations but this is year one of the competitive window. There is almost nothing on the books past 2023. There is a lot of room in the pay roll to even get to the average pay roll size in baseball.

I'm not saying anything.  I'm telling you what Elias said.   What he means exactly, even I don't know.   I think what he's saying he wants to way each FA signing and trade for what's best for the Orioles in 2023-2030 or whatever, not based on what's best for 2023.  It seems pretty simple to me.   He wants to do what's best for the franchise moving forward.   If he feels he can improve the team in 2023 without significantly putting it in peril moving forward, he'll do it.    He may think signing Carols Rodon is too risky moving forward.   I think Rodon is worth the risk.   Elias may think differently.    I won't freak out about it if that's the way he feels.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, oriole said:

Let’s unpack that a little…it seems to me like you’re saying that by keeping pay roll low now, then the teams in 2-3 years will benefit from it. I hear you and I recognize that a lot of free agent contracts have a tendency to be dead weight towards the back end of the deal. What I feel that you’re not considering is that the front end of the deal would make the 2023 team better. It’s a balancing act and I would like to mention that I am happy the O’s did not do the DeGrom or Correa deals. You don’t need to be stupid with the money. But Gibson or Wacha on Opening Day is also a situation where you’re leaning hard on the “lightning in a bottle” approach. That was fine when there was no expectations but this is year one of the competitive window. There is almost nothing on the books past 2023. There is a lot of room in the pay roll to even get to the average pay roll size in baseball.

No one, on here at least, has been advocating anything close to an "all in" approach to 2023.  Even the boldest of moves suggested, such as Verlander on a short term deal, wouldn't significantly negatively impact the 2024-2026 seasons.  That was Fangraphs that posted about moving the Orioles payroll into luxury cap range.

Signing someone like a Bassitt could very well increase the odds of the 2024-2026 teams succeeding. 

[RZNJ]

16 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Finally, you have some self awareness!

Don't laugh.  You'll be there soon enough.

[Frobby]

54 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

This is Boulderdash Sir!

The word is balderdash.   But what evidence do you have that Angelos and Elias are not on the same page?   Evidence, not theories.  

[oriole]

14 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I'm not saying anything.  I'm telling you what Elias said.   What he means exactly, even I don't know.   I think what he's saying he wants to way each FA signing and trade for what's best for the Orioles in 2023-2030 or whatever, not based on what's best for 2023.  It seems pretty simple to me.   He wants to do what's best for the franchise moving forward.   If he feels he can improve the team in 2023 without significantly putting it in peril moving forward, he'll do it.    He may think signing Carols Rodon is too risky moving forward.   I think Rodon is worth the risk.   Elias may think differently.    I won't freak out about it if that's the way he feels.

I guess it’s a matter of interpretation. I’ve read the same quotes from Elias that you have. Comparing his comments from early offseason to Winter Meetings and beyond then I’m sure you can understand why people think that his plans may have changed. And by his plans, I mean the freedom to spend which I don’t believe to be solely dictated by what Elias wants, but by what the owners want. 
 

15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No one, on here at least, has been advocating anything close to an "all in" approach to 2023.  Even the boldest of moves suggested, such as Verlander on a short term deal, wouldn't significantly negatively impact the 2024-2026 seasons.  That was Fangraphs that posted about moving the Orioles payroll into luxury cap range.

Signing someone like a Bassitt could very well increase the odds of the 2024-2026 teams succeeding. 

Bassitt, Verlander…these are exactly the type of deals I’d have been happy to see the O’s make.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The word is balderdash.   But what evidence do you have that Angelos and Elias are not on the same page?   Evidence, not theories.  

Talk, it's only talk
Babble, burble, banter
Bicker, bicker, bicker
Brouhaha, balderdash, ballyhoo

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Talk, it's only talk
Babble, burble, banter
Bicker, bicker, bicker
Brouhaha, balderdash, ballyhoo

This should the the OH board motto.  

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

This should the the OH board motto.  

Good song, you have to respect Belew, he manged to work with Zappa, Fripp and Bryne.  That's three very difficult folks to deal with.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Can_of_corn

[SilverRocket]

Seems expensive for a reliever with a 5+ ERA last year.

[Yardball85]

4 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

Seems expensive for a reliever with a 5+ ERA last year.

A signing as odd and head-scratching as Frazier.  I guess Oakland thinks they can flip him at the deadline. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Yardball85 said:

A signing as odd and head-scratching as Frazier.  I guess Oakland thinks they can flip him at the deadline. 

 

I think teams are leaning on the extreme non-spenders to at least make a pretense of having a payroll.

 

[Yardball85]

I don't hate Hill as a low risk signing, but we should be looking for more serious upgrades. 

[Yardball85]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think teams are leaning on the extreme non-spenders to at least make a pretense of having a payroll.

 

I remember a few years ago the Rays signing Carlos Gomez (or as my Wisconsin friends say, "Go-Go Gomez" because of a complaint that they weren't spending enough.  So there may be something to this.

[Going Underground]

23 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Good song, you have to respect Belew, he manged to work with Zappa, Fripp and Bryne.  That's three very difficult folks to deal with.

I know Belew and Jerry Harrison from the Talking Heads are touring and doing the Remain in Light album.March 4th in Baltimore. 

Now back to our originally scheduled program