Orioles sign Mychal Givens

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The point is, nobody is wildly excited about the Frazier signing.  The reactions run from “meh” to “yech,” to put it scientifically.   

There are definitely people that are ok with it and see value with the deal.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

There are definitely people that are ok with it and see value with the deal.

I’m personally ok with it, if it sets up a trade of infielders for pitching.  Otherwise, I don’t see the point.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m personally ok with it, if it sets up a trade of infielders for pitching.  Otherwise, I don’t see the point.

You think they are going go trade 3 IFers?

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

You think they are going go trade 3 IFers?

3?  No.  1-2, I hope so, if the return is worthwhile.  

[tabletop]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Now you're getting offended over the word love? Give me a break. 

Everyone needs to STOOOOPPPPPP being OFFENDED by every single word! 

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not offended at all. I just asked you to cite your sources. Based on your temper tantrum response you don’t have any. What an embarrassing response from a grown man.

[Just Regular]

Here are the 2022 Orioles 30-inning relievers - peripherals wise Givens' overall 2022 performance was pretty close to Jorge Lopez's Oriole-only performance, so in this listing you can kind of let Lopez be a proxy for Givens for the kind of years guys are coming off of.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=30&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2022&ind=0&team=2&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2022-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=8,d

Fangraphs numbers give 83 MLB relievers clearing 60 innings last year - basically the workload of someone who is above the shuttle.      The K-BB's of 10th/30th/50th/70th place were 25-20-17-12.     

Of the 83, Felix was 9th, Givens 43rd, Baker 50th, Akin 52nd, Tate 61st.     Cionel was just behind Tate, but missed the 60-inning filter by a hair - likewise his K-BB was near the 25th percentile of "full-time" relievers.    Givens more 50-yard line.     

If you lower the filter to 30 innings, it finds 253 pitchers (same 83, plus 170 more part-timers).    I think that gives a decent flavor how Clubs in the aggregate are trying to maximize the daily roster with matchups.     

In season, you have 5 starters, 3 relievers good enough to keep all the time, and everyone else is in the gig economy if their pitches forecast well against opponent Bats any given series.     If Hyder uses you 32 pitches in low leverage....on a stronger team even Tate, Baker, Akin options might come into play...

The 2022 Orioles had a lot of opportunity, but the incumbents aren't Lou Gehrig or anything.    Is Akin a roster lock?

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Just Regular

[Tony-OH]

11 minutes ago, tabletop said:

Not offended at all. I just asked you to cite your sources. Based on your temper tantrum response you don’t have any. What an embarrassing response from a grown man.

Lol. I'm not mad at all. You get offended over me using the word love.

It's getting sad and tiring seeing all of the crying over the use of simple words. 

Buck up, be an adult, and drive on.

And by the way, you haven't earned nearly enough cred around here to talk to me that way. Never, ever forget who's sandbox you are playing in.

Can we all just get back to the discussions at hands and stop worrying about the rest of this stuff? 

 

[ScGO's]

One thing I like about the Givens, Gibson, and Frazier moves are the playoff experience and "veteranosity" that everyone put emphasis on with Odor, Chrinos, and even Aguilar except these 3 may actually be good.

Frazier - 2022 - went 4 for 9 w/ a 1.000 OPS in the WC Series. Got 15 PAs in the ALDS vs Houston. 1 All Star appearance

Givens - 2016 - pitched 2.1 IP scoreless w/ 3 Ks in the famous "Buck doesn't pitch Britton" game, 2022 - Pitched 2 Gs in the WC Series vs San Diego.

Kyle Gibson - 2019 - pitched in the ALDS vs NY, 2022 - pitched in the NLCS and WS. 1 All Star Appearance

 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

3?  No.  1-2, I hope so, if the return is worthwhile.  

So, say we trade one..that still leaves 2 of Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Norby coming (but maybe he can’t stay at second). Frazier doesn’t make sense there.

If you trade 2, it makes more sense but you don’t know that trade is happening right now or else it would be done.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

So, say we trade one..that still leaves 2 of Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Norby coming (but maybe he can’t stay at second). Frazier doesn’t make sense there.

If you trade 2, it makes more sense but you don’t know that trade is happening right now or else it would be done.

 

I’m not in a hurry with Ortiz, who has 26 AAA games under his belt.   I definitely want to see some of him this year, but it’s fine with me if he stays in Norfolk for 70-100 games.  

[Slight Upward Arc]

You can slice and dice all this any way you want, but good god O’s fans deserve so much more than what has happened this off-season. 

[Tony-OH]

5 hours ago, Frobby said:

The point is, nobody is wildly excited about the Frazier signing.  The reactions run from “meh” to “yech,” to put it scientifically.   

C'mon Frobby, there are people that have been trying to justify this signing using everything from stats from three years ago, to hope, to thinking Elias must know more than us.

Now a lot of those people are hedging their bets and going "meh". I gotta say, some people spent a lot of time defending a "meh" move.

Maybe they never used the word "love" but there are definitely supporters of this move. Maybe we should just as a simple question, do you like the signing or not. 

Just a simple, should the Orioles have signed Frazier to $8 million a year or not.

[RZNJ]

There's a difference from saying you don't like the move or don't understand than getting hysterical over it like it's the worst move of all time.   I think people were trying to find reasons not to hate it and try to understand,  knowing that Elias is no dummy.

Other people were ready to declare Elias a failure and not fit for the job.  

[Tony-OH]

15 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

There's a difference from saying you don't like the move or don't understand than getting hysterical over it like it's the worst move of all time.   I think people were trying to find reasons not to hate it and try to understand,  knowing that Elias is no dummy.

Other people were ready to declare Elias a failure and not fit for the job.  

Oh, now people were hysterical. lol 

Well it seemed that the "hysterical" people were the ones with the massive amount of stats and statcast information to back up their claims that this move was terrible.

Unlike the people who defended it, told us Elias was smarter, Elias has more information so we don't know what we were talking about, tried to use stats from 3 years ago, and generally loved the move until we showed them his declining speed, EVs and Barrell and hard hit %, then suddenly changed their tune to calling it a "bleh" move.

Go vote and make your self known one way or the other. No more fence dwellers. Time to say you like or don't like the move as of 15 December.

[sportsfan8703]

4 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

So, say we trade one..that still leaves 2 of Urias, Westburg and Ortiz with Norby coming (but maybe he can’t stay at second). Frazier doesn’t make sense there.

If you trade 2, it makes more sense but you don’t know that trade is happening right now or else it would be done.

 

Ortiz and Norby still need AAA AB’s. Westburg will get a lot of ABs in ST and then at 1B/DH and AAA, before the deadline. 
 

I really like the Givens signing. I view him as another Tate. He’s protection in case Khriebel tires out again and Baker doesn’t put it together. 
 

I’d love to see us sign one more SP. That would make for a really strong/deep staff, just albeit with not a lot of TOR star power. Then Elias can focus on the bench and guys can battle it out in ST.