With the MLB additions are we a much better team than 2022?

[webbrick2010]

35 minutes ago, NCRaven said:

What did you predict last year?

Definitely under 70, but a lot of things (off years by Boston & Tampa), relative good health, etc. helped the O's overachieve 

[NCRaven]

8 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

Definitely under 70, but a lot of things (off years by Boston & Tampa), relative good health, etc. helped the O's overachieve 

Or you were wrong.

[Roll Tide]

5 hours ago, ScGO's said:

Gibson >Lyles

Frazier > Odor

Givens > Kriehbel

McCann > Chirinos

They may not be astronomically better, but all 4 are replacing less valuable players in my opinion 

And you’ve wasted 20-30 million to do it

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, tntoriole said:

Frazier is significantly better than Odor and 2023 results will be more dramatic in difference… Frazier is also a competent utility guy at outfield and 2b and gives much much more flexibility than Odor did. 
1 year deal, he will not block anybody who is ready

McCann is better than Chirinos .. backup catcher is a necessity obviously ..and he is 2.5 mil per year cost with fringe prospect given up 

Gibson is better than Lyles and we did not have to give him 2 years like Lyles got. 

Givens is a plus addition in my view

 

All small pieces but all make us better than what was there in 2022

Significantly? Not according to the numbers? Your basically spending 7 million for .6-.7 WAR. 

[tntoriole]

1 hour ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

He's marginally better than Odor.

He's better defensively but their offensive value (or, more accurately, lack thereof) was virtually identical last year, and there isn't much reason to expect a major improvement from Frazier.

Disagree.. last year was below his norms and he is much better defensively and can play the outfield.  You want to wager who has more WAR in 2023?  I will take Frazier 

[tntoriole]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Significantly? Not according to the numbers? Your basically spending 7 million for .6-.7 WAR. 

Down year for Frazier.. his utility gives much more flexibility than Odor .. He could play RF or LF if needed or against righthanders 

Let’s look at the end of 2023 and revisit this dispute and see how much WAR dif between 2023 Odor and Frazier 

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, SilverRocket said:

I think these three plus the Givens signing are roughly a wash, given we also lost some Trey Mancini and Jorge Lopez time.

The biggest difference will be having Gunnar for the entire season instead of a month. That could be a 2-3 WAR improvement.

Yes we agree…. But, they could do a much better in helping the kids. 

[Pickles]

19 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

And you’ve wasted 20-30 million to do it

Whatever will the Angelos family do?

[tntoriole]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Significantly? Not according to the numbers? Your basically spending 7 million for .6-.7 WAR. 

And we don’t know yet what Odor will get in 2023 .. and what does 7 mil get you on the free agent market these days?  You think if they hadn’t spent it, then Angelos would have spent 20 mil on Bassitt?  I don’t. 
 

As I said, these are small moves but each one I believe is an improvement.  So does Mike. We shall see. 

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Down year for Frazier.. his utility gives much more flexibility than Odor .. He could play RF or LF if needed or against righthanders 

Let’s look at the end of 2023 and revisit this dispute and see how much WAR dif between 2023 Odor and Frazier 

Dude ….he was a 662 OPS last year. Expecting him to be more than he was over the last 2 years is being overly optimistic. The approach of adding guys that your hoping to catch lightning in a bottle is stupid.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Whatever will the Angelos family do?

Don’t care about them! If your going to spend it do so on a difference maker.

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Don’t care about them! If your going to spend it do so on a difference maker.

I think we should look back in 10 months and see if Frazier/Gibson/Givens/McCann tally up more or less WAR than Bassit.  I'd probably take the former right now.

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

And you’ve wasted 20-30 million to do it

We know the past FA market has been about $8 mm/WAR, and indications are that the price has been higher this winter.  So if the moves to date add 3 wins, that’s roughly market price.   

I think if all you looked at was 2022, you might conclude that the team hasn’t improved by three wins.   Gibson, Frazier and McCann all had down years.   So at the end of the day, whether you see the team as improved depends on whether you think these players will bounce back.  

Personally, I believe a bounce-back is likely in all three cases.  And, I think these players are better than the ones they replaced.  But it’s not a slam dunk.

And, the offseason isn’t over.   

 

[ScGO's]

38 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

And you’ve wasted 20-30 million to do it

If they give us a combined 3-4 WAR that cost seems about right though

[Number5]

31 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Dude ….he was a 662 OPS last year. Expecting him to be more than he was over the last 2 years is being overly optimistic. The approach of adding guys that your hoping to catch lightning in a bottle is stupid.

Perhaps Elias believes that the unbelievably low .268 BABIP is unlikely to reoccur.  My issue with the Frazier signing isn't Frazier's production or the $8 million.  And certainly had nothing whatsoever to do with Odor - Frazier is an improvement over Odor any way you want to look at it.  My question was and still is did we really need to sign a second baseman?  It appeared to me that we were pretty well set there.