What is the real reason for our off season?

[Roll Tide]

9 hours ago, MijiT88 said:

I just want the offseason to be over so we can watch the young kids play and win games and everyone can eat crow at how they demanded 10 free agent signings this offseason

Or ride the pine as they play Frazier and the gaggle of AAAA projects while the kids mostly ride the pine. I knew Nevin was most likely never going to be but he never got an opportunity to play everyday. Watching a poor producing retread at 2B and having Vavra and whomever else that makes the team sit will suck. 

[SpOkane]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Who demanded 10 free agent signings?

I made a polite request, not a demand. But ask and you shall receive:

1. Adam Frazier
2. Mychal Givens
3. Kyle Gibson
4. Eduard Bazardo
5. Franchy Cordero
6. Nomar Mazara
7. Wandisson Charles
8. Kyle Dowdy
9. Ofreidy Gomez
10. Josh Lester

[UMDTerrapins]

Winter

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, SemperFi said:

WC I'm going to disagree with your thoughts, at least the last sentence-those are my thoughts exactly, something just doesn't add up.  I too believe there will be a trade, likely Mateo-so many contending teams looking for a SS. 

The more I look at it there is a huge disconnect between revenue and payroll, by my scratch pad calculation the Orioles are one of the most profitable teams  in baseball (between 4-10).  I like the attached as a model, it's 3 years old but doesn't include revenue sharing (or Disney) or corporate income and expenses (from personal experience the O's suck at corporate Yankees among others are very good-I don't have a clue what expenses other than payroll and rent are but would guess the O's are on the very low end). 

I don't subscribe to the theory that payroll is on hold to make the team more attractive to be sold, the type of 1 and 2 year deals discussed have no absolutely no material affect.  Recent franchise sales also discount that theory.  There is a huge disconnect, I just don't see it.

https://www.morssglobalfinance.com/major-league-baseball-finances-what-the-numbers-tell-us/

Your first sentence says that you are disagreeing but it sounds like you are agreeing.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

1) You aren’t getting anything of real value for those guys at the deadline.

2) there is zero indication Elias had any 3 year deals on the table.  We know he had multi year deals. We don’t know that they were 3 years.

3) This offseason is a combo of how Elias is going to operate most offseasons, how ownership is cheap and how Elias misread the market.

 

 

Gibson was traded at the deadline in 2021.

Givens was traded at the deadline in 2022.

Prospects were included both times.  The return might be nothing to you but it might be something to Elias.

Edited December 29, 2022 by wildcard

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gibson was traded at the deadline in 2021.

Givens was traded at the deadline in 2022.

Prospects were included both times.  The return might be nothing to you but it might be something to Elias.

Givens was traded for a guy who, according to MLb.com, wasn’t a top 30 prospect in the Mets system. I doubt Elias signed guys so that he could deal them at the deadline for one borderline top 50 prospect.

Thats an absurd take to have.

He signed guys to 1 year deals simply because he and ownership don’t want to be tied down to longer term deals and he got players he believes helps the team in 2023.

No need to read anything more into it than that. 

Essentially what you are saying, by bringing up trade values at the deadline, is that Elias has no intention of competing for the playoffs because if they were, he’s not trading anyone.

[SemperFi]

20 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Your first sentence says that you are disagreeing but it sounds like you are agreeing.

It was a poor attempt at humor, I agree with you on all points-it affirms what I have thought/posted for some time.  

[Yardball85]

1 hour ago, Orioles0615 said:

Ah yes watch the young kids play. Just like year when the young kids were delayed and delayed getting called up and then we watched Odor, Aguliar, and Nevin play. 

I fully expect more of the same this year. I am not looking forward to watching Fraizer, Franchy Cordero, and Mazara play. Hell I am still not convinced they don't pull some vodoo BS and have Grayson Rodriguez start in AAA because of his "injury" 

It would be very Orioles of them to somehow have Spenser Watkins in the Opening Day rotation.  And Roch talking him up as being just as good as the free agents we didn't sign. Because Orioles. 

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

It would be very Orioles of them to somehow have Spenser Watkins in the Opening Day rotation.  And Roch talking him up as being just as good as the free agents we didn't sign. Because Orioles. 

He's totes a #1-#3 pitcher once our Wizard gets done tinkering!

[wildcard]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Givens was traded for a guy who, according to MLb.com, wasn’t a top 30 prospect in the Mets system. I doubt Elias signed guys so that he could deal them at the deadline for one borderline top 50 prospect.

Thats an absurd take to have.

He signed guys to 1 year deals simply because he and ownership don’t want to be tied down to longer term deals and he got players he believes helps the team in 2023.

No need to read anything more into it than that. 

Essentially what you are saying, by bringing up trade values at the deadline, is that Elias has no intention of competing for the playoffs because if they were, he’s not trading anyone.

Whether Frazier is traded depend on his performance and how Ortiz, Westburg and Utias are doing.

Whether McCann is traded depend on his performance and how Handley is doing.

Whether Gibson is traded depend on his performance and how Hall is doing.

Whether Givens is traded depend on his perform and how many other pitchers are doing.

Remember Elias trade Lopez and Mancini at the deadline for prospects.

[wildcard]

12 minutes ago, Yardball85 said:

It would be very Orioles of them to somehow have Spenser Watkins in the Opening Day rotation.  And Roch talking him up as being just as good as the free agents we didn't sign. Because Orioles. 

I think Watkins will be at AAA.  The only way he gets to the rotation is if injuries hit the top 5 starters.   But Watkins did have a 4.17 ERA as a starter last season.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Whether Frazier is traded depend on his performance and how Ortiz, Westburg and Utias are doing.

Whether McCann is traded depend on his performance and how Handley is doing.

Whether Gibson is traded depend on his performance and how Hall is doing.

Whether Givens is traded depend on his perform and how many other pitchers are doing.

Remember Elias trade Lopez and Mancini at the deadline for prospects.

Yea he did..because he didn’t believe in the team.

If his plan is to do the same thing as of right now, which is what you are insinuating, he doesn’t believe in this team either.

[Yardball85]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

He's totes a #1-#3 pitcher once our Wizard gets done tinkering!

I actually do like Spenser and got some Miguel Gonzalez vibes from him last year.  But my uneducated "vibes" from watching him should not be enough for the Orioles (and Roch) to try to sell him to the fans as a "good" starting pitcher.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Whether Frazier is traded depend on his performance and how Ortiz, Westburg and Utias are doing.

Whether McCann is traded depend on his performance and how Handley is doing.

Whether Gibson is traded depend on his performance and how Hall is doing.

Whether Givens is traded depend on his perform and how many other pitchers are doing.

Remember Elias trade Lopez and Mancini at the deadline for prospects.

I don't think you pick up someone like McCann with the idea of flipping him.  Unless a young catcher forces the issue or he tanks completely I think he's here for the next two years.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Whether Frazier is traded depend on his performance and how Ortiz, Westburg and Utias are doing.

Whether McCann is traded depend on his performance and how Handley is doing.

Whether Gibson is traded depend on his performance and how Hall is doing.

Whether Givens is traded depend on his perform and how many other pitchers are doing.

Remember Elias trade Lopez and Mancini at the deadline for prospects.

These players aren’t getting dealt if they are producing and the team is winning. They are getting dealt if the team isn’t winning.