Don't bet against "Mr Everywhere"

[owknows]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

The signing of Frazier doomed Westburg's chances of starting the year in Baltimore and I won't rehash my dislike of that move. What I will find interesting is how Westburg is used in AAA. Will he play 2B mostly? Will he play 1B, 2B and OF? Will they continue to waste reps with him at SS? Will he still play 3B? 

While I think the Orioles have done a pretty good job in development, where I don't think they've done a good job is identifying and playing guys at positions where they will most likely play at the major league level. If the Orioles didn't believe in Vavra at 2B, why not play him a lot if LF and CF to give him more experience.

Knowing they were going to have a whole at 2B this year, why was Westburg not given a steady diet of 2B to see if he could develop better there? 

To me, this failure of positional development is why they felt a need to sign Frazier for $8 million despite having Westburg, Vavra and Ortiz with AAA time under their belts.

The Orioles clearly believe moving guys around to give them experience at many positions is more important then getting guys rep at the position they most likely will play at the major league level. It remains to be seen whether or not the positional players will struggle initially at the major league level because they never really got the reps in the minor leagues at their main position. 

 

In the absence of the shift, the organization has decided it would be best to field a shortstop at every skill position.

[Aristotelian]

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

By the way, Mr. Everywhere has never played one inning at 1B or the outfield in the minors.

They also seem to be stockpiling actual 1B's. Doesn't seem like they want Westburg there. If he can't play 2B for us, I think his biggest value to the organization is probably as a trade asset.

[wildcard]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

They also seem to be stockpiling actual 1B's. Doesn't seem like they want Westburg there. If he can't play 2B for us, I think his biggest value to the organization is probably as a trade asset.

The biggest value to Westburg is his bat and that he can play offense and defense.

[SteveA]

4 hours ago, wildcard said:

What is you bet on whether Westburg will play 1B and corner outfield in ST?

With Santander missing a significant part of camp, and Hays maybe playing CF a lot because Mullins will miss a significant part of camp, there certainly will be ample opportunities to try Westburg at the corner OF positions.

I'm skeptical about them actually doing it.   But we'll see.   We will know pretty quickly in early March whether they are thinking like you are or not.

[btdart20]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

The signing of Frazier doomed Westburg's chances of starting the year in Baltimore and I won't rehash my dislike of that move. What I will find interesting is how Westburg is used in AAA. Will he play 2B mostly? Will he play 1B, 2B and OF? Will they continue to waste reps with him at SS? Will he still play 3B? 

While I think the Orioles have done a pretty good job in development, where I don't think they've done a good job is identifying and playing guys at positions where they will most likely play at the major league level. If the Orioles didn't believe in Vavra at 2B, why not play him a lot if LF and CF to give him more experience.

Knowing they were going to have a whole at 2B this year, why was Westburg not given a steady diet of 2B to see if he could develop better there? 

To me, this failure of positional development is why they felt a need to sign Frazier for $8 million despite having Westburg, Vavra and Ortiz with AAA time under their belts.

The Orioles clearly believe moving guys around to give them experience at many positions is more important then getting guys rep at the position they most likely will play at the major league level. It remains to be seen whether or not the positional players will struggle initially at the major league level because they never really got the reps in the minor leagues at their main position. 

 

This has been the biggest miss in development.  It’s fine thru AA and even AAA until you clearly see who’s the everyday guy in the MLB.  But we’re seeing guys lay claim to spots at the ML level now.  If Westburg plays more than 15% SS in AAA, that’s not a good development plan (unless you’re dead set on trading him).

Blood said in an interview recently that they just focus on big picture development right up until a promotion is imminent.  And it showed with Gunnar especially last year.

[wildcard]

34 minutes ago, SteveA said:

With Santander missing a significant part of camp, and Hays maybe playing CF a lot because Mullins will miss a significant part of camp, there certainly will be ample opportunities to try Westburg at the corner OF positions.

I'm skeptical about them actually doing it.   But we'll see.   We will know pretty quickly in early March whether they are thinking like you are or not.

I think we will see McKenna, Cameron and Cordero play a lot of Center in ST.   Hays maybe a small amount.   But Hays will hardly play at all in away games.

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

They also seem to be stockpiling actual 1B's. Doesn't seem like they want Westburg there. If he can't play 2B for us, I think his biggest value to the organization is probably as a trade asset.

My gut feeling is they envision Westburg 3B, Henderson SS, and Ortiz 2B by OD 2024.  

[AnythingO's]

25 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

My gut feeling is they envision Westburg 3B, Henderson SS, and Ortiz 2B by OD 2024.  

Wow, didn't see that take coming. Gunnar is #1 prospect and viewed as GG and All Star there. He is viewed as above average at SS but behind Ortiz defensively. By 2024 Holiday should be knocking on the door if he is all they say he is. Why would you mess with Gunnar's development at 3B? Are you envisioning doing this to improve Westburg's value in a trade? Are you displacing both 2022 GGs in 2023 with Gunnar and Westburg?

[wildcard]

47 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

My gut feeling is they envision Westburg 3B, Henderson SS, and Ortiz 2B by OD 2024.  

Not a bad take.   One of the possibility. 

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Wow, didn't see that take coming. Gunnar is #1 prospect and viewed as GG and All Star there. He is viewed as above average at SS but behind Ortiz defensively. By 2024 Holiday should be knocking on the door if he is all they say he is. Why would you mess with Gunnar's development at 3B? Are you envisioning doing this to improve Westburg's value in a trade? Are you displacing both 2022 GGs in 2023 with Gunnar and Westburg?

Gunnar's long time future at third won't be adversely impacted if he plays a few seasons at Shortstop.  Also, as good a prospect as Holliday is, he's 19 and has 20 games as a professional. 

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

My gut feeling is they envision Westburg 3B, Henderson SS, and Ortiz 2B by OD 2024.  

And then who goes where when Holliday is ready? Why not just develop Gunnar to play 3B and stay there? And where do Norby and Mayo fit? 

[Aristotelian]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

The biggest value to Westburg is his bat and that he can play offense and defense.

I agree but if the O's have better players at all the infield spots then he may have more value to another team. If we can trade him for equivalent value why not do it? 

 

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

And then who goes where when Holliday is ready? Why not just develop Gunnar to play 3B and stay there? And where do Norby and Mayo fit? 

I think they should worry about who goes where when Holliday is ready when they have a better grasp on when that date is.

You don't make OD 2023 decisions based off of what Holliday might do in two years.

[now]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Westburg and Ortiz are going to be play some 3B in ST because Urias will be in the WBC.

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

The Urias injury contributed to the Frazier signing. 

I must have missed something. Urias is injured? But Urias is playing in the WBC? Can someone clarify please?

[wildcard]

29 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I agree but if the O's have better players at all the infield spots then he may have more value to another team. If we can trade him for equivalent value why not do it? 

 

Westburg projects as a run producer.  They have him for 6 years.

Santander is a FA after 2024.   He is  more likely traded later this year.  

Elias needs to see this play out more before picking between his core prospects.

He needs time to see how long it will take Holliday to impact the majors.   He probably will not know that for a year or more.

Elias has taken years to collection his young talent.   He is not going to rush to trade it IMO.