We have a playoff caliber offense need to acquire MLB pitching

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, backdoorslider said:

Yep. Run scoring wont be an issue this year guys. Problem is starting pitching. Means is good. Gibson is decent. The rest of the staff? Total ass.

I think you should go to Oriole Park walk up to Felix Bautista and call him that to his face.

[TommyPickles]

I think Grayson looks like he's going to be really good, actually. He's got some of the best stuff I've seen in an Oriole uniform for a while.

Now Austin Voth? Yea, I'd say "total ass" is fair.

[Jagwar]

I know it's only 11 games, but I don't think I'd call the offense "playoff caliber" until Mullins and Santander get out of their respective funks. Santander in particular looks lost. You could also say that it's too early to trust the hot bats of Hays and Mountcastle.

That being said, the team does need pitching to reach the postseason. Let's hope that they are still close to a playoff spot near the deadline and see if Elias can pull off a solid trade. 

 

[Bemorewins]

I think the OP’s assertion may be overreaction to facing possibly the worse pitching staff in baseball. I didn’t hear anyone saying this after the Yankees’ series. We know baseball is a long season and there will be regression to the mean. You are never as good as your highs nor as bad as your lows.

However, I absolutely agree about the need for better pitching in order to contend seriously. I believe in Braddish second half and also that Gibson can be a decent guy to throw innings and beat bad/young/impatient hitting teams.

But, I do not believe in Cole Irvin in this division at all. He does not have the stuff to deal with power hitting right handers especially in parks like Fenway and Yankee Stadium. They kept talking about how he never walks anybody, and then lo and behold he immediately starts walking/nibbling against these type of teams. Because he’s afraid of the damage of their contact.

Kremer is a back end guy on a serious playoff teams and so is Wells. You don’t want them starting in playoff series. And Grayson is not there right now. Great potential/stuff. But poor command. If he got punished by a poor hitting team like the A’s. I shudder to think what would happen pitching that way against the Jays, Yanks, Sox, Astros, (right now Rays), etc.

I say all of this to say this staff as currently constructed would not be a good beat to get to the playoffs, let alone win a series. 
 

We have the prospects (and honestly payroll as well) to change the major league talent calculus. It will be up to ownership and the front office to change this. Until this happens, we may be a fun young team, but we will not seriously be wining anything.

[waroriole]

48 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Where are these holes you are seeing? 

I'm convinced this will be an above average offense. 

2B, SS, LF, maybe CF, DH and 1B. 

[Moose Milligan]

This thread doesn't get started if they don't score 12 runs last night.  

In other words, too early to tell if this is a "playoff caliber offense."

That said, I don't disagree about the pitching.  

[backdoorslider]

1 hour ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

I know that sometimes these absurd trade scenarios are fun to speculate on but there's literally no way the Orioles are trading Gunnar or Holliday.  0 chance. 

 

That is because Elias doesnt have the nuts to do it. If he had a pair he would go for the ring. 

[backdoorslider]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

There is no way Cease or any player… (not even Judge or Ohtani given costs of salary plus cheap years for young player) is worth 3 top 10 prospects.

But I agree with the OP we are going to have to address our pitching in a seriously meaningful way if we want to win for real.

Just think about it like this, are you confident that the Orioles can win consistently against good teams in big games if our offense is held to 3 or less runs? Because that will happen some in the playoffs when you are facing the other teams best.

 

Exactly. I would go for it. I'd take a 3 year world series window followed by 5 years in the basement and rebuilding. I'd take 5 years of 100 losses for even a realistic shot at the world series.

 

It's been since 1983. That is too long. 

[Bemorewins]

11 minutes ago, backdoorslider said:

 

Exactly. I would go for it. I'd take a 3 year world series window followed by 5 years in the basement and rebuilding. I'd take 5 years of 100 losses for even a realistic shot at the world series.

 

It's been since 1983. That is too long. 

I don’t think we need to go that route. We have WAY TO MANY assets/prospects of a high caliber to limit success to 3 years.

We can manage things in a smart way so that we don’t need to be that extreme, but can still start to contend now. We can trade for a starter like one of the MIL top guys or Luzardo from MIA. Or a top starter who is coming at on the end of a contract who we can get for less than our absolute top prospects and then resign them to a 30 million a year deal (or whatever it would take) and still have a payroll of less than 90 million next year.

Saying all that to say, yeah we could trade off our absolute top guys, but why? When we have so many assets and so much flexibility. By the way in 4 years no matter what, Adley should still be on the team, so no need for a 3 year window approach.

However, I do think that it is time for the org and fans to get out of this rebuild/low bar mentality and start talking/thinking/planning to compete for a championship! If we were only going to set our sights on “just getting into the playoffs” we didn’t need to take the extreme approach of tanking for 5 years to get there. 
 

That approach said to me that we were willing to be painfully patient so that it would payoff big in the long run. Kind of like what the Astros and Cubs (to a degree did). 

[deward]

12 minutes ago, backdoorslider said:

 

Exactly. I would go for it. I'd take a 3 year world series window followed by 5 years in the basement and rebuilding. I'd take 5 years of 100 losses for even a realistic shot at the world series.

 

It's been since 1983. That is too long. 

Elias will need to make an aggressive move at some point along the way if he truly wants to hunt for a title, BUT he has gone on the record many times saying that having a short window of contention followed by a multi-year collapse is exactly what they don't want to do again.

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, deward said:

Elias will need to make an aggressive move at some point along the way if he truly wants to hunt for a title, BUT he has gone on the record many times saying that having a short window of contention followed by a multi-year collapse is exactly what they don't want to do again.

When you tank for 5 years in a row and acquire the amount of assets/prospects that we currently have, you shouldn’t need to.

We can trade from our positional prospect surplus and still have plenty!

I have asked in other threads: What could a package like Norby, Westburg, Hall, Stowers, (and throw in 5th name from lower A or from ML infield not named Gunnar, Mountcastle or Adley) bring back?

If we traded all of that, we won’t skip a beat for the ML team. And would still have Gunnar, Grayson, and Holiday left as young jewels AND more talent left in the minors. 
 

The only way we can mess this up is by doing nothing or by acquiring a player in a trade who does not perform as would be expected.

[tntoriole]

I am willing to give all the starters 4-5 starts before I weigh in .. the only pitcher i think definitely is not up to par is Voth.  He needs to be released. 
But look at plenty of TOR pitchers who a game or two or three are still working through some things .. i think all of the starting pitchers can have stretches where they pitch quite well.

Either way, it is what it is.  No major trades are happening until well into the season if at all. 

[milbest77]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

I think the OP’s assertion may be overreaction to facing possibly the worse pitching staff in baseball. I didn’t hear anyone saying this after the Yankees’ series. We know baseball is a long season and there will be regression to the mean. You are never as good as your highs nor as bad as your lows.

However, I absolutely agree about the need for better pitching in order to contend seriously. I believe in Braddish second half and also that Gibson can be a decent guy to throw innings and beat bad/young/impatient hitting teams.

But, I do not believe in Cole Irvin in this division at all. He does not have the stuff to deal with power hitting right handers especially in parks like Fenway and Yankee Stadium. They kept talking about how he never walks anybody, and then lo and behold he immediately starts walking/nibbling against these type of teams. Because he’s afraid of the damage of their contact.

Kremer is a back end guy on a serious playoff teams and so is Wells. You don’t want them starting in playoff series. And Grayson is not there right now. Great potential/stuff. But poor command. If he got punished by a poor hitting team like the A’s. I shudder to think what would happen pitching that way against the Jays, Yanks, Sox, Astros, (right now Rays), etc.

I say all of this to say this staff as currently constructed would not be a good beat to get to the playoffs, let alone win a series. 
 

We have the prospects (and honestly payroll as well) to change the major league talent calculus. It will be up to ownership and the front office to change this. Until this happens, we may be a fun young team, but we will not seriously be wining anything.

This 100000%. Reality is that we got bombed in the two division series we’ve had already. Thank goodness for balanced scheduling this year. Loved that we won last night, but come on. Any other team would have likely buried us. 

[DirtyBird]

We were 3-8 last year at this point and just lost the first 2 games of a 4 game series at Oakland

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

2B, SS, LF, maybe CF, DH and 1B. 

Quite a reach to call of those positions "holes" in the lineup.  Frazier was a hole in the lineup last year.  He was an All-Star in 2021.  So other than him and Mateo, whose defensive production has more than made up for his offensive short comings, I'm not seeing anyone incapable of providing average or better production offensively.