Elias’ Pitching Acquisitions

[emmett16]

I Wanted to start a thread on pitchers Elias has acquired via trade, rule 5, & other non-drafted players.  It’s been mentioned a ton that he has gone very light on pitchers in the draft.  Use this thread to discuss non-drafted pitchers acquired by Elias.  Not only successes but the duds.  A lot is spoken about the stockpile of IF & OF MLB ready talent and the pipeline coming up.  At first glance it looks they have done a pretty good job of building a pitching pipeline full of MLB level talent from spare parts.  

Kyle Bradish - Bundy trade - MLB SP

Tyler Wells - rule V - MLB SP

Cionel Perez- waiver - MLB RP

 Ryan Baker - waiver - MLB RP

Yenier Cano - Lopez trade - MLB RP

Voth- waiver claim - MLB RP

Coluombe - cash purchase 

Givens - FA - IL

Gibson - FA - MLB

 Cole Irvin - Hernaiz trade - AAA

Cade Povich - Lopez Trade - AA

Chayce McDermott - Mancini Trade - AA

Seth Johnson - Lopez trade - IL

Now, no blockbuster trade netting a future SP1 or SP2 has been completed yet, but I’d say they’ve done a good job living in the margins and finding talent that fits their system.  

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by emmett16

[Aristotelian]

Voth - waiver claim. Had outstanding '22, regression in '23. 

Povich - Lopez trade. Pitching well in AA.

Givens - FA, IL.

Gibson - FA, worth the money so far.

Irvin - Hernaiz trade, demoted

I'd say Elias has done a good job of building some surplus value in pitching but we still haven't found that elusive Ace.

[Aristotelian]

Also Coulombe - bought from Twins

[emmett16]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Also Coulombe - bought from Twins

I’ll add those names to OP

[Moose Milligan]

No superstars, no guys who are true #1s but it's a collection of guys that have done very well overall.

 

[Frobby]

There are some decent guys there, but the fact remains we are 10th in the league in ERA now (starters are 11th) and finished 9th last year (starters were 10th).   So, there’s more work to do.  

[emmett16]

19 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

No superstars, no guys who are true #1s but it's a collection of guys that have done very well overall.

 

I guess I’m curious what he could get for legit assets, whether that be a ton of cash or blue chip prospects.  It looks like they have done well w/o giving up much.  I think that’s my main question for this org - can they obtain top flight pitching talent.  

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

Voth - waiver claim. Had outstanding '22, regression in '23. 

Povich - Lopez trade. Pitching well in AA.

Givens - FA, IL.

Gibson - FA, worth the money so far.

Irvin - Hernaiz trade, demoted

I'd say Elias has done a good job of building some surplus value in pitching but we still haven't found that elusive Ace.

He is developing his ace --- GRod.

[wildcard]

41 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There are some decent guys there, but the fact remains we are 10th in the league in ERA now (starters are 11th) and finished 9th last year (starters were 10th).   So, there’s more work to do.  

Kind of a negative post.   The pen is #1 in the majors in ERA at 2.86.  There is a lot of stuff going right for that to happen.   Their at 110 innings for 28 games with makes them 6th in the MLB.   It would be nice to see that go down by about 6 innings of the next 28 games which would put them at league average.   I think as the starters settle in that could happen.

The starters are 24th at a 5.28 ERA.    But that should improve.   Wells, GRod and Bradish all should be fine with ERAs under 4.00 and Gibson in the low 4.00s.    Kremer is the only one that concerns me right now.  He should bounce back but I don't like the way he accepts giving up homers.    Zimmermann and/or Watkins may be needed if Kremer does not improve.  At least until Means and/or Hall are ready. 

 

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Kremer is the only one that concerns me right now.  He should bounce back but I don't like the way he accepts giving up homers.    Zimmermann and/or Watkins may be needed if Kremer does not improve.  At least until Means and/or Hall are ready. 

 

Kremer might be the biggest individual disappointment in the earlygoing.

[Orioles0615]

This just tells me he can build bullpens for a short amount of time since they are so fickle. Guys that were good last year are struggling, and guys that were bad last year are picthing well. Our starters still isn't anything to get excited about (except Grayson who is finding his footing)

 

He's done fine of keeping our heads above water, but there is not much special there. If after the May schedule things are still looking the same I may change my mind 

[Just Regular]

Some of why for enjoying baseball this season I'll continue to talk about Shohei Ohtani in a matter of fact tone as a player acquisition target is his 2023 $$$/WAR profile.

You can navigate the fringes of MLB performers and elevate your Club's replacement level if you don't purposely neglect it, but putting the championship key distance between average performance and excellence is another animal.

I believe if dealt Ohtani will return less than Westburg, Santander and Irvin, should Minasian not want to punt on '24 Trout and '23 Ohtani asks to sever his relationship with Arte Moreno.    I know in '24 I might have to take my chances Cade Povich or John Means can get those guys out chasing an AL6 or better result.

In all the media praise baths for the Rays last month, one of the points is they were in on Freddie Freeman, and they've been quietly in on other top performers.     Even the hedge fund managers know there can be value at the top of the talent curve, while they cold shoulder almost all the world's Jameson Taillons and John Meanses.

For this thread, should we look back at closed books like '22 Jordan Lyles?     Cesar Valdez was fun for a minute.

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Kind of a negative post.   

It’s a factual post.  We are 10th in ERA, and our starters are 11th.   That’s not spin, it’s fact.  

Obviously our bullpen has been very good.  I’ve been trumpeting that almost daily in the bullpen thread.   There’s no doubt Elias has been very good at finding good relievers in trades and waiver claims, etc.   It’s harder to do with starting pitchers, though Wells has proven to be a terrific Rule 5 pick (though how he was picked behind Sceroler, I’ll never know).   I do not think our rotation is good enough to make a deep postseason run.   That’s why I said there’s more work to do.
 

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Kind of a negative post.   The pen is #1 in the majors in ERA at 2.86.  There is a lot of stuff going right for that to happen.   Their at 110 innings for 28 games with makes them 6th in the MLB.   It would be nice to see that go down by about 6 innings of the next 28 games which would put them at league average.   I think as the starters settle in that could happen.

The starters are 24th at a 5.28 ERA.    But that should improve.   Wells, GRod and Bradish all should be fine with ERAs under 4.00 and Gibson in the low 4.00s.    Kremer is the only one that concerns me right now.  He should bounce back but I don't like the way he accepts giving up homers.    Zimmermann and/or Watkins may be needed if Kremer does not improve.  At least until Means and/or Hall are ready. 

 

I think it's kind of wild to expect Bradish and GRod to have ERAs under 4. Frankly that's just not very likely. Bradish still looks like he's prone to unraveling or sudden loss of command. GRod is a rookie and I would expect something in the mid-4's with nice strikeout numbers. 

Kremer is a disaster. Guy is tough to figure out. One start he's pitching like someone insulted his mother and no one can touch him, and then he'll come out the next one and just have nothing. Kind of tired of the inconsistency. It's a spot that needs to be upgraded as soon as they have confidence in someone to replace him. 

Edited May 1, 2023 by interloper

[LA2]

Bryan Baker was a waiver pick-up from the Blue Jays, Nov. 2021 - Doing very well as RP.