A Realistic Pitching Ace And What It Will Take to Acquire Him

[Bemorewins]

7 hours ago, sevastras said:

Cease is a long way from putting up a 2.20 ERA like last year, as well. Ubaldo Jiménez had a 2.88 ERA one year for Colorado. He was at 1.83 through June, pretty sure we all know how the rest of his career developed. 
Im not saying he is going to Cease(pun) to be good, but I am not giving up Henderson or Holliday for him. 

That's fine if you don't believe in Cease. I respect your opinion. But I don't see any parallel or equivalent between him and Ubaldo. Look at the mechanics of the two pitchers alone. Look at the dramatic drop of velo for Ubaldo once the modern performance enhancing substance measures came into the game. These things were there before Ubaldo ever became a Baltimore Oriole. The only warning flag I see with Cease is the walk rate this year.

Now back to Cease, if not Cease, then who? Alcantara? Luzardo? Alcantara is better than Cease but will cost more. Luzardo only has 3 seasons on his contract after this one, so again he might cost you as much as Cease. We are going to have to give in order to get.

We need a legit front of the rotation starter. We ONLY have one pitcher in the ENTIRE org who has that sort of talent/profile/projection. That's not going to cut it if we want to be a force in the postseason for the forseeable future.

[EddeeEddee]

20 hours ago, deward said:

I wouldn't consider Andrew Miller underwhelming. He pitched very well for the O's down the stretch in '14, as well as in the playoffs. No one would have any regrets about that trade if that run had ended with a championship. 

Yes, but in a vacuum trading a highly regarded starter for any relief pitcher, especially a rental, is a high price to pay for a budget conscious team like the O's.  It's a Yankee move but not a Rays move.

[deward]

52 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

Yes, but in a vacuum trading a highly regarded starter for any relief pitcher, especially a rental, is a high price to pay for a budget conscious team like the O's.  It's a Yankee move but not a Rays move.

It was an all in move for a team with a realistic shot at a title. Flags fly forever. 

[foxfield]

3 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

That's fine if you don't believe in Cease. I respect your opinion. But I don't see any parallel or equivalent between him and Ubaldo. Look at the mechanics of the two pitchers alone. Look at the dramatic drop of velo for Ubaldo once the modern performance enhancing substance measures came into the game. These things were there before Ubaldo ever became a Baltimore Oriole. The only warning flag I see with Cease is the walk rate this year.

Now back to Cease, if not Cease, then who? Alcantara? Luzardo? Alcantara is better than Cease but will cost more. Luzardo only has 3 seasons on his contract after this one, so again he might cost you as much as Cease. We are going to have to give in order to get.

We need a legit front of the rotation starter. We ONLY have one pitcher in the ENTIRE org who has that sort of talent/profile/projection. That's not going to cut it if we want to be a force in the postseason for the forseeable future.

A couple of things. In general I believe the Orioles will spend from their depth to improve pitching. 
 

I believe they are already looking and who/what they would like to add.

I agree that the Orioles have as much capital as anyone if they decide they really want someone. 
 

I am not against adding Cease or anyone else per se. 
 

I do not think the orioles will overpay for less than 3 years of service time. 
 

in general I think your views over value Cease. By that I mean that adding Cease would make the Orioles better on appear, but I do not think adding him simply makes the Orioles an instant favorite in any game 1 or game 7 scenario when it comes to playoffs. 
 

Lastly, the decisions you want made now are not likely to be made until mid June or later. By this time, much of the current landscape will look differently. Is Gunnar still struggling?  Is Mateo still one of the MLB’s best players?  Anyone else from the farm forced their way into the lineup?  What about the minor league players. Have they risen or fallen?

 

The premise that the Orioles need an upgrade seems universal. But if the Orioles are still playing the second best ball in the entire league in Mid June an awful lot will look different. Mostly because that cannot happen without pretty good pitching. 
 

We are getting closer to 50 games in…When we get to around 60 games we will have a much clearer picture of our capabilities and our opportunities. That will allow a bettter valuation of both our players and those of sellers. I am fine with spending capital. I am not looking to spend just because. And I am not convinced that Cease is the missing piece. 

[RZNJ]

This offseason.

1. We need a middle of the order hitter.  Abreu will do.

2. Adam Frazier?  Horrible move.

3. The bullpen is a trouble spot without Jorge Lopez and Tate hurt.

4.  We need at least a #3 starter.  Irvin and Gibson weren't enough.

5. We need to platoon Cedric.  He can't hit LHP.

Before OD, majority of OH thinks this is a .500 team.

May 6.  We can win a WS if we get an ace.

[Bemorewins]

58 minutes ago, foxfield said:

A couple of things. In general I believe the Orioles will spend from their depth to improve pitching. 
 

I believe they are already looking and who/what they would like to add.

I agree that the Orioles have as much capital as anyone if they decide they really want someone. 
 

I am not against adding Cease or anyone else per se. 
 

I do not think the orioles will overpay for less than 3 years of service time. 
 

In general I think your views over value Cease. By that I mean that adding Cease would make the Orioles better on appear, but I do not think adding him simply makes the Orioles an instant favorite in any game 1 or game 7 scenario when it comes to playoffs. 
 

Lastly, the decisions you want made now are not likely to be made until mid June or later. By this time, much of the current landscape will look differently. Is Gunnar still struggling?  Is Mateo still one of the MLB’s best players?  Anyone else from the farm forced their way into the lineup?  What about the minor league players. Have they risen or fallen?

 

The premise that the Orioles need an upgrade seems universal. But if the Orioles are still playing the second best ball in the entire league in Mid June an awful lot will look different. Mostly because that cannot happen without pretty good pitching. 
 

We are getting closer to 50 games in…When we get to around 60 games we will have a much clearer picture of our capabilities and our opportunities. That will allow a bettter valuation of both our players and those of sellers. I am fine with spending capital. I am not looking to spend just because. And I am not convinced that Cease is the missing piece. 

I don't think Cease makes us an instant favorite for every game that he starts for us in the post season. But we would both have to admit that he (or any pitcher of his caliber) increase our chances significanty.

I agree and understand that for now we have to allow things to play out as the trade deadline is the next open window for significant transactions to take place.

Believe me, I like Cease, but am in no way married to the idea that he has to be the one. But I am FULLY convinced that we will need a pitcher of his caliber (beyond Grayson's potential and whatever the best outcome is for Means post injury) if we want to go as far as possible in the Fall. 

[Bahama O's Fan]

1 hour ago, deward said:

It was an all in move for a team with a realistic shot at a title. Flags fly forever. 

Exactly! We ended up not have Davis, Winters, nor Machado that post season. We lost to the Royals in the AL Championship. I believe we win that and perhaps the World Series with them. 

[Bemorewins]

41 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

This offseason.

1. We need a middle of the order hitter.  Abreu will do.

2. Adam Frazier?  Horrible move.

3. The bullpen is a trouble spot without Jorge Lopez and Tate hurt.

4.  We need at least a #3 starter.  Irvin and Gibson weren't enough.

5. We need to platoon Cedric.  He can't hit LHP.

Before OD, majority of OH thinks this is a .500 team.

May 6.  We can win a WS if we get an ace.

Things change... that's why I believe with the unpredictable nature of professional sports, "you can't count your chickens before they hatch". You never know what next year will look like until it comes. 

What we have this year is an amazing opportunity especially if we make the necessary  improvements.

[Bemorewins]

6 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

Exactly! We ended up not have Davis, Winters, nor Machado that post season. We lost to the Royals in the AL Championship. I believe we win that and perhaps the World Series with them. 

The good thing about now as compared to then, that org NEVER could have dreamed of even having a third of the abundance that we have now.

We made a couple of trades and it literally killed our farm (which wasn't that great to begin with) now there is no trade(s) that we can make that can strip of to the point where we are anything lose to bare.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Bemorewins said:

Things change... that's why I believe with the unpredictable nature of professional sports, "you can't count your chickens before they hatch". You never know what next year will look like until it comes. 

What we have this year is an amazing opportunity especially if we make the necessary  improvements.

According to most we didn't make the necessary improvements.  So maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised even further. 

[Bemorewins]

Just now, Bemorewins said:

The good thing about now as compared to then, that org NEVER could have dreamed of even having a third of the abundance that we have now.

We made a couple of trades and it literally killed our farm (which wasn't that great to begin with) now there is no trade(s) that we can make that can strip of to the point where we are anything lose to bare.

**sorry - last line should have said - "close to bare." **

[Bemorewins]

Just now, RZNJ said:

According to most we didn't make the necessary improvements.  So maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised even further. 

There is no need to depend on "pleasant surprises" when you are this prospect rich and have this much abundance of org talent.

Hey look I will admit, that maybe Cease is NOT the wrong guy to add, but we definitely can and should add somebody of his caliber. Yes we will have to give up talent, but nothing we give up can stop this train from moving (unless it is Adley or Grayson). 

[HakunaSakata]

Can we please stop referring to Dylan Cease an "ace". He's Robbie Ray 2.0 and it would be silly to buy him high coming off a statistical season he is very likely to never repeat.

Also, trading for an actual ace is pointless because this team will never pay to lock him up. Our best move would be to trade for a MLB ready pitching talent and hope he lives up to the hype / develops into an ace. 

[Alasdaire]

Gunnar's looks visibly disgusted when a ball out of the zone is called. He will absolutely feast on an automatic zone.

[Bemorewins]

3 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

Can we please stop referring to Dylan Cease an "ace". He's Robbie Ray 2.0 and it would be silly to buy him high coming off a statistical season he is very likely to never repeat.

Also, trading for an actual ace is pointless because this team will never pay to lock him up. Our best move would be to trade for a MLB ready pitching talent and hope he lives up to the hype / develops into an ace. 

He may not be an ace but he's MUCH better than anything we have currently.

Don't agree with any of the highlighted. Luzardo and Alcantara could be traded for and both aree under contract for a longer term. We are going to need this type of pitching in order to contend. What we have now won't cut it. We have to hold our breathe that Kremer and Bradish can get through 5 against a good offense.

Nobody is giving you a Major League ready pitcher with top of rotation stuff. Do you know how valuable that commodity is? Bad teams are not trading their best prospects and good teams are not giving you their best pitching prospects. Where are we supposed to get someone like you suggest from? That would probably cost and arm and a leg. Do you not see this?