I can't see messing with the pitching

[LA2]

I'm more worried about our bullpen, especially the middle relievers, who become so much more crucial in the late and post-season, than I am about the starters. Also, whether Cano and Bautista can handle such heavy use all season.

[Baltimorecuse]

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.” ― Yogi Berra

The consensus seems to be I'm overly optimistic about the pitching staff.  

 

 

[Frobby]

23 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I really didn't like Norris, didn't like the trade from the start.

But if we are looking just at the one season, yea he wasn't a 5.  165 IP with an ERA below league average is at the least a very strong 4.

The whole “number” game is confusing, since nobody agrees where the lines are. Tillman. Chen and Norris ranked 32nd, 44th and 53rd in ERA among 88 qualified starters.   Put them in any bucket you want.  

[Sanfran327]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

Why is 2014 the standard? I don’t want us to stall out this year and get swept in the ALCS.

If you take a look outside of the O’s orb, you will see that most of our AL competitors THIS YEAR have starting staffs way better than ours. Now if you feel comfortable gambling that our guys can “get hot” and magically outpitch their guys for 3 rounds, that’s fine. I do not.

I suppose if you read my post you would have seen that I said that I didn't think our rotation was at all responsible for losing the ALCS. Without looking back at the box scores, I recall an absolutely unconsciously hot KC team that was playing way over their heads, and they were a pretty good group to begin with. 

That rotation took us a long way. Arguably further than anyone though we'd go, even after 96 wins. Sometimes you just run into a buzzsaw.

Also later in my post, I supported adding a TOR starter to the rotation if we could do it without giving up any of our major young pieces. 

[truespectra]

Love this post but it’s a very long season. It would not surprise me if they trade from their position player surplus for young controllable pitching. Like Rays did with Rasmussen 

[Sanfran327]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

The whole “number” game is confusing, since nobody agrees where the lines are. Tillman. Chen and Norris ranked 32nd, 44th and 53rd in ERA among 88 qualified starters.   Put them in any bucket you want.  

But you're a smart person, and you understand that it's a spectrum. And that none of our guys were at the ace end of the spectrum, and only one of them was at the bottom end. Most were in the middle of the pack, perhaps some in the upper middle of the pack. 

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, Sanfran327 said:

But you're a smart person, and you understand that it's a spectrum. And that none of our guys were at the ace end of the spectrum, and only one of them was at the bottom end. Most were in the middle of the pack, perhaps some in the upper middle of the pack. 

Threre are 30 teams.  Some people will call a guy in the back half of the top 30 pitchers in the majors a no. 1, some will say a 2, some will say a 3.  There’s only 88 pitchers with enough innings to qualify, which is slightly less than 3 per team, yet some people will call a pitcher in the back half of the 88 a 4 or a 5.   
The general idea is who would be a 4th/5th starter on a contender, not just any team, but I think a lot of posters overrate the strength of a typical contender’s pitching staff.

 

 

[now]

Strange to see Irvin only mentioned in passing in one post here, when he was acquired as a rotation upgrade/insurance and began the season as a "lock." Irvin aside, looking forward and back... Trading Hernaiz might be no biggie, but how do you traders feel now about Hader and ERod for Norris and A. Miller?

[AnythingO's]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The general idea is who would be a 4th/5th starter on a contender, not just any team, but I think a lot of posters overrate the strength of a typical contender’s pitching staff.

I may be mis-remembering but wasn't there a thread about the lack of post season success of the top Aces not too long ago? Kinda like DET in 2014. Seems sort of relevant to the current notion that we must acquire a TOR this year. You seem to be great at finding threads, heck you may have started it.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, now said:

Strange to see Irvin only mentioned in passing in one post here, when he was acquired as a rotation upgrade/insurance and began the season as a "lock." Irvin aside, looking forward and back... Trading Hernaiz might be no biggie, but how do you traders feel now about Hader and ERod for Norris and A. Miller?

ERod was partly a developmental miss.  He was good, not great at Bowie before the trade.  As soon as the Red Sox got their hands on him, he turned it up two notches.  Miller pitched well for us as a rental.   It didn’t seem horrible at the time.

Hader was in A ball when he was traded.   Again, it didn’t seem horrible at the time.

BTW, Hernaiz had something like a .940 OPS in AA so far.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, now said:

Strange to see Irvin only mentioned in passing in one post here, when he was acquired as a rotation upgrade/insurance and began the season as a "lock." Irvin aside, looking forward and back... Trading Hernaiz might be no biggie, but how do you traders feel now about Hader and ERod for Norris and A. Miller?

I've never wavered in my feelings on the Miller or Norris trades.  I was in favor of the one and opposed to the other. 

The Irvin trade was a sound decision even if he never pitches another inning for the big league club.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

ERod was partly a developmental miss.  He was good, not great at Bowie before the trade.  As soon as the Red Sox got their hands on him, he turned it up two notches.  Miller pitched well for us as a rental.   It didn’t seem horrible at the time.

Hader was in A ball when he was traded.   Again, it didn’t seem horrible at the time.

BTW, Hernaiz had something like a .940 OPS in AA so far.

The mistake with Miller was extending O'Day instead of keeping him.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The mistake with Miller was extending O'Day instead of keeping him.

Right, of course Miller had some say in that.

[Frobby]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The mistake with Miller was extending O'Day instead of keeping him.

O’Day was only extended after the 2015 season, so it’s not like any decisions on O’Day affected decisions on Miller.

[now]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've never wavered in my feelings on the Miller or Norris trades.  I was in favor of the one and opposed to the other. 

The Irvin trade was a sound decision even if he never pitches another inning for the big league club.

Interesting. Can you remind us which of those trades you were in favor of?

And can you elaborate more on what you say about Irvin?