Would you make this trade for Shane Bieber and Jose Ramirez

[btdart20]

Just now, Sanity Check said:

If you're Cleveland, wouldn't you rather get prospects?  I don't see Santander landing a pitching upgrade from an underperforming team.  Most teams that are sellers will want prospects in return to build with.  Just my opinion.

I don’t think they’re sellers in the traditional sense given their young pitchers.  A little offense can go a long way.  
Santander for Bieber was my top of the deck trade that (sort of) scratches the itch for both teams.  If I’m the O’s I’m asking for one of their young guns anyway.

[Sanity Check]

11 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Thanks for posting this.  Interesting list.  I hope Grayson compares to the pre-2023 Justin Verlander, or else 

[ArtVanDelay]

3 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

But he consistently goes at least 6 innings and gives up 3 or fewer runs.  Who wouldn't want that?

Grayson had a much better K/9.  What did that do for us?  Don't results matter more than cherry-picked statistics? 

If K/9 is the standard, then let's get GrayRod back up here, right?

I'm getting the impression from a few so far that if we did get Bieber, it would not upgrade to the top of our rotation.  That's fair, I'm just not sure I agree. 

The results say that his 3.04 ERA is not going to hold up.  Strikeouts are a big part of that.  His FIP is 4.03 and his xERA is 4.92. 
 

He’s not much better than the Gibson/Kremer/Wells/Bradish group, if at all.  We should be aiming higher. 

[Chaka Garcia]

I would trade Norby or DL Hall and throw in a C prospect or Player like Vavra/Stowers for Bieber.

[Sanity Check]

1 minute ago, ArtVanDelay said:

The results say that his 3.04 ERA is not going to hold up.  Strikeouts are a big part of that.  His FIP is 4.03 and his xERA is 4.92. 
 

He’s not much better than the Gibson/Kremer/Wells/Bradish group, if at all.  We should be aiming higher. 

Fair enough.  I didn't/don't see Bieber falling off a cliff anytime in the next year and a half, but anything can happen.  But I get your point...and yes, for the prospects I mentioned, maybe we can to better adding a bat and a top of rotation guy.

[Chelsea_Phil]

20 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

I doubt Cleveland trades JoRam.  But they do need to unlock some of their pitching depth.  I wouldn’t be shocked if Bieber is traded or if we’re the one to land him.  Santander for Bieber?

This is more reasonable than your giving away the crown jewels, SC.

[Sanity Check]

2 minutes ago, Chaka Garcia said:

I would trade Norby or DL Hall and throw in a C prospect or Player like Vavra/Stowers for Bieber.

While I don't disagree with you, I don't think this would get Bieber away from Cleveland.  So, I think they would demand more, or walk away.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

This is more reasonable than your giving away the crown jewels, SC.

I don't think it's reasonable at all from Cleveland's perspective.

[Sanity Check]

1 minute ago, Chelsea_Phil said:

This is more reasonable than your giving away the crown jewels, SC.

More reasonable from our perspective.  I don't think Cleveland does this deal.  I was looking more at what I thought they would want.  In the end, they aren't taking our spare parts, and Santander is not going to be a long term difference maker for them.

That's why I made this a hard trade to swallow to bolster our lineup and pitching staff for the next two years.  Those upgrades won't come cheap.....if we do them.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting that we do this, I was trying to show how challenging it might be to get what we need to put us over the top.....but now it seems as if several folks believe Bieber is not much of an upgrade which shocks me if you look at his game by game results.

[Chelsea_Phil]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think it's reasonable at all from Cleveland's perspective.

I don’t disagree, but I think we are not desperate so as to make such a lopsided (in terms of player potential) trade.

[Chelsea_Phil]

Just now, Sanity Check said:

More reasonable from our perspective.  I don't think Cleveland does this deal.  I was looking more at what I thought they would want.  In the end, they aren't taking our spare parts, and Santander is not going to be a long term difference maker for them.

That's why I made this a hard trade to swallow to bolster our lineup and pitching staff for the next two years.  Those upgrades won't come cheap.....if we do them.

By the way, I wasn't suggesting that we do this, I was trying to show how challenging it might be to get what we need to put us over the top.....but now it seems as if several folks believe Bieber is not much of an upgrade which shocks me if you look at his game by game results.

And he is such a crappy singer as well.  No thanks!!

[Billy F-Face3]

No way.

[oriole]

I believe Ramirez has a no trade clause so he’s off the table. 
 

As far as Bieber goes, I think you’re gonna need to do something like Mullins for him. Just because his K/9 is down doesn’t mean he isn’t an ace still. They’ll obviously want proven major league talent since they’re still in the playoff hunt. Mullins has an extra year of control so the Guardians may need to throw in someone like George Valera to make it happen. But for those humoring a Santander for Bieber trade are not thinking in reality. Not even close to being close.

[ChosenOne21]

Dang, I didn't realize Bieber had fallen that far. No way I'm trading Grayson in that package. I might do the deal if Grayson is replaced with D.L. Hall or Cade Povich.

But this isn't the deal I would go for. Ramirez is fantastic, but infield is an area of strength for this system/team

[Billy F-Face3]

Just now, oriole said:

I believe Ramirez has a no trade clause so he’s off the table. 
 

As far as Bieber goes, I think you’re gonna need to do something like Mullins for him. Just because his K/9 is down doesn’t mean he isn’t an ace still. They’ll obviously want proven major league talent since they’re still in the playoff hunt. Mullins has an extra year of control so the Guardians may need to throw in someone like George Valera to make it happen. But for those humoring a Santander for Bieber trade are not thinking in reality. Not even close to being close.

So you're just going to give up one of our top 3 most valuable everyday players for a guy who might possibly be being overrated, and only plays half a game once every 5 days?

What is up with the people around here? Can I interest you in a $50 Hot Dog? Step right up!