Moves in the near term

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

That's not a great argument to DFA him, which is what I asked.  It's an argument to maybe have him in Norfolk....or trade him to a team that needs a bat (or, maybe O'Hearn has more trade value), but to just give up and DFA him feels extreme to me.  That's what I was disagreeing with, not who the better player is compared with Cowser.  Ortiz isn't even a comparison.....different positions and skill sets.

There are currently 40 players on the 40 man roster.   To promote Cowser a 40 man roster spot is needed.  If Elias wants to promote Cowser to make the O's better he has to DFA someone.   I think Lester is the most likely player.  

Once Lester is DFA'd Elias will have 10 days to trade him.   By the end of those 10 days if he is not traded he has be put on waivers.  If he passes through he can join the Norfolk if he wants to.  If he is claimed he will go to his new team.

So Elias will have a chance to trade Lester after he is DFA'd.

Edited June 12, 2023 by wildcard

[Jagwar]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

Who is a better player.  Lester or Cowser?   Cowser improves the offense and the outfield defense.   

Lester or Ortiz?   Ortiz fills a hole at 2B vs lefties.  Lester can't do that.  

Lester is behind O'Hearn and Mounty at 1B.   Behind Urias and Gunnar at 3B.   Behind everyone in the  OF.    Behind Adley, Santander and Cowser at DH.    The O's should be trying to put the best team on the field and Lester is the 26th man slipping to 27 fast.

Honestly, we have NO clue whether Cowser will hit ML pitching right away. His stats suggest that he could have success, but you just don't know until prospects arrive. 

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Os4days said:

To me, it is obvious that Elias is not gonna rush Cowser, Ortiz, Heston or any of our top prospects especially while we are in contention. It took over a month before Adley came up and we were struggling at the time. 
 

I think it’s the smart move. First you don’t want to stunt a young player’s growth by only playing him sparingly. Adley came up and pretty much played every day. Second I prefer guys with experience on the bench. Having a 24 year old come up and expecting big things in big games may be too much to ask. Heck look at Grayson. I think that’s why Lester got called up as he produced at AAA but is not considered a blue chip. Last, we signed Hicks and when Cedric comes back, I could see him playing right with Anthony, Ohearns and Mounty switching between RF, 1B and DH. 

You could be right.   But there is a difference between 2022 and 2023.   Elias is trying to win in 2023.

Calling up Cowser, Ortiz or Westburg is not rushing them.  They have played long enough and well enough to master AAA.

Edited June 12, 2023 by wildcard

[wildcard]

21 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I see no reason to DFA Lester. Lester fills a need in a spot we are thin. I would rather have him than McKenna, Gillaspie, and Spencer Watkins (who has been terrible this year). Plus the longer we wait the cheaper it gets to 60-day Seth Johnson. Should be plenty of room on the 40 man for Westburg and Cowser.

 

I value the other players you mentioned more than Lester but I see your point.   Someone needs to be DFA'd to get Cowser on the 40 man roster and it does not have to be Lester.

[Matt Bennett]

27 minutes ago, pdiddy said:

Whenever I get too excited about bringing up guys from AAA I go back to McKenna being essentially Cowser in AAA in 2021 and the absolute certainty by most of us that Mountcastle would hit. 
 

We shouldn't compare the 5th overall pick in the draft and arguably top 30 prospect in baseball to whatever Ryan McKenna was. Not to mention Cowser has played in double the amount of AAA games McKenna has.

Mountcastle has hit for the most part. Career 109 OPS+. Definitely a valuable contributor to our lineup for years. That he's probably in the process of losing his job 4 years later on the 3rd best team in baseball isn't much of a reason to temper expectations. & even Mountcastle was what...a lower end top 100 guy? Cowser and Westburg are in a different tier. 

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Honestly, we have NO clue whether Cowser will hit ML pitching right away. His stats suggest that he could have success, but you just don't know until prospects arrive. 

I agree but the players that I am suggesting be taken off the 26 man roster are McKenna and Lester.  That is a pretty low bar for Cowser to exceed.

[Jagwar]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree but the players that I am suggesting be taken off the 26 man roster are McKenna and Lester.  That is a pretty low bar for Cowser to exceed.

Believe me. I've been clear that I reached peak McKenna long ago. But you really do not know for sure if Cowser will be any better until he proves it. 

And for the record, I want to see Cowser, and Westburg too. Let's see if they can hit ML pitching. 

[Bemorewins]

58 minutes ago, pdiddy said:

Whenever I get too excited about bringing up guys from AAA I go back to McKenna being essentially Cowser in AAA in 2021 and the absolute certainty by most of us that Mountcastle would hit. 
 

At least one of our top guys is likely to get up here and either suck or disappoint. I am happy to continue to defer to Elias.  
 

I also subscribe to the theory that Westburg is being preserved in the minors as a trade chip so he’s not tarnished in the event that he struggles if/when he comes up.

McKenna is and NEVER WAS anything close to Cowser in anyway. Except for the fact that they both play outfield. The talent level is on two different levels.

Cowser is a borderline to 25 prospect. McKenna was never even close to a top 100 prospect.

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

McKenna is and NEVER WAS anything close to Cowser in anyway. Except for the fact that they both play outfield. The talent level is on two different levels.

Cowser is a borderline to 25 prospect. McKenna was never even close to a top 100 prospect.

Absolutely true.  They are not comparable as hitters.  But of course it won’t be surprising if Cowser doesn’t hit well immediately.  And it wouldn’t be that unusual if he never hit that well in the majors.  

[Bemorewins]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Absolutely true.  They are not comparable as hitters.  But of course it won’t be surprising if Cowser doesn’t hit well immediately.  And it wouldn’t be that unusual if he never hit that well in the majors.  

I believe that there is a very low probability that Cowser hits well immediately. I believe like most top prospects it will take him some time to settle in. However, I also believe now that things seem to have clicked for Gunnar, it is probably time to bring up one of Cowser or Westburg to begin their acclimation process.

[Gerard19]

Admittedly, I’m just an old Strato-Matic manager from the 1970s, but I was thinking the other day about the notion of Mateo taking over the late inning defensive outfielder, pinch runner position McKenna now fills. Gunnar at SS except for spot starts for Mateo. I’m not sure of Mateo’s defense in the outfield but recall they tried him a bit in spring training out there.

[Orioles0615]

The excuses people go through to want the team to hoard prospects just so they get off to a MLB Pipeline list they hang on their wall is insane 

[Safelykept]

10 hours ago, wildcard said:

I value the other players you mentioned more than Lester but I see your point.   Someone needs to be DFA'd to get Cowser on the 40 man roster and it does not have to be Lester.

 

[pdiddy]

11 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

McKenna is and NEVER WAS anything close to Cowser in anyway. Except for the fact that they both play outfield. The talent level is on two different levels.

Cowser is a borderline to 25 prospect. McKenna was never even close to a top 100 prospect.

100% agree - he also destroyed AAA in the beginning of 2021 and is a plus defender. Certainly not for an extended period in the minors either but I think of him as a cautionary tale for expectations.

Fully expect Cowser to come up and be very very good.

[RZNJ]

People continue to underestimate the patience Elias and Hyde have in these guys and how much they hate to give up on guys.   Most of us would have dumped Voth and Perez long ago, and benched Mateo weeks ago.   They simply don’t operate that way.   I can only conclude that the believe in the talent and in the coaching staffs ability to get these guys back on track.  It also seems obvious that they prefer players like O’Hearn and Lester in reserve roles than guys like Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser.  This is what I expect in the near term.  Nothing.

Henderson will start getting the bulk of the SS starts.   Urías will get the bulk of 3B.   O’Hearn will start getting more 1B starts.     Mateo and Mountcastle lose most of there time against RHP for now.  Lester will get the occasional 3B/1B/DH start and PH.   Hicks continues to be the everyday CF.