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Jack Flaherty 2023

AdamK

By AdamK
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vab Major Leaguer Rising Star

vab

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Flaherty is just what his numbers indicated - a middling guy who's going to have some good games, some bad games and some in the middle. For what they were willing to give up it's about the best they could get. Hopefully they can improve him on the margins with some more time to work with him but he's not going to be any kind of true upgrade. He's just a guy who can help them get this rotation through the rest of the season with a reasonable chance to win most of the time. 

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Roy Firestone
Roy Firestone

Forgive me feeling a bit more thrilled.than many on this post...Jack is a family friend who went to the same school as my son, they remain friends... and he along with Lucas Giolito, and before that M

Sports Guy
Sports Guy

Missed a ton of bats.    As someone who felt this was a good acquisition and better than most of what they could have done, I’m not surprised. That said, he will control issues at times, s

theobird
theobird

If you didn’t think we got a pitcher that can really help this team down the stretch, then you don’t know jack. I voted the trade an A in our poll. I live in springfield missouri, and have watched him

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bpilktree Hangout Grand Counsel

bpilktree

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40 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

No one signed anyone they traded for them.  The Orioles were not going to trade a top prospect and pay for Scherzer or Verlander so they were not a realistic option.   So the real question is between Lorenzen and Flaherty.  Did we make a solid offer for Lorenzen and the phillies made an offer that the Tigers liked better we may never know.   The Phillies traded Lee for him Lorenzen so the question is did we offer someone like Norby for him and they declined and asked for Ortiz and were we reluctant to do that.  I am fine with that decision however if we made lower offer and they countered with Norby and we declined I would be upset as Norby has no place here imo.  We just don’t know the details of what happened in trade discussions.  

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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1 hour ago, vab said:

Flaherty is just what his numbers indicated - a middling guy who's going to have some good games, some bad games and some in the middle. For what they were willing to give up it's about the best they could get. Hopefully they can improve him on the margins with some more time to work with him but he's not going to be any kind of true upgrade. He's just a guy who can help them get this rotation through the rest of the season with a reasonable chance to win most of the time. 

Hopefully they can minimize any of the  horrific, godawful, worse than a random fan in the stands starts

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G54377 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

G54377

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The real hope was that even if he has a horrific first inning like last night, he can at least pitch his way through to the 5th. A guy who can't get past the 3rd is a problem. Any run of the mill ML pitcher can get you 3 crappy innings. Let's hope that type of game isn't something to expect again.

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Uli2001 Hangout Grand Counsel

Uli2001

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21 hours ago, OrangeTurtle said:

I can understand this viewpoint, but with our rotation being comprised of lots of young guns exceeding the most innings they've ever thrown + almost a lock for a team postseason berth at this point, would you not want to try to "preserve" what they have left for the postseason?

Or are you saying that a 6-man rotation might make them less sharp with respect to "crispness" and "momentum" in a playoff series?

I think 5-man is a reasonable compromise. Pitchers need work.

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ChosenOne21 Major Leaguer

ChosenOne21

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On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

I wonder if our inability to sign anyone had something to do with the fact the team had been terrible for years and many considered our modicum of success last year to be a bit fluky. After this year where we've had clear success and are clearly on the rise, I wonder if we'll be better able to sign players if the dollar amounts are close.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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20 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

@Sports Guy please help me understand your meaning here? Why would you value Jack over Lorenzen? Honest question.

Multiple reasons.

First of all, stuff matters in Oct. Guys who miss bats and get Ks are huge in the playoffs.

Secondly, Lorenzen hasn’t come close to this many innings in several years, so the wearing down factor is very possible.

I think Flaherty just has the higher upside, if you guaranteed me that Lorenzen won’t wear down, I would say his floor is higher because he has better command/control but that’s about it.

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Malike Hangout Grand Counsel

Malike

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I'm not making excuses, but this is a guy who has spent his entire career with the same org that taught him the things they do. He's here now, and getting new information. He's going to have some starts that knock your socks off and people are going to say we need to lock him up long term, and he's going to have a stinker like he did in SD and people are going to mourn the loss of Prieto. There is no middle ground, good start, lock him up, bad start, this team made a horrible mistake.

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ChuckS Hangout Grand Counsel

ChuckS

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13 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

It was mentioned in another thread about the idea of trying Jack in closer role? Or even high leverage role.  Intriguing as he did so last year 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnperrotto/2022/10/05/st-louis-cardinals-looking-for-important-outs-from-jack-flaherty-in-postseason/amp/

 

 

I think Jack will be our fourth starter in the playoffs.  He's a guy you definitely have a quick hook for, and a piggy-back starter like Gibson or Irvin ready to go behind him.  But he has the stuff to give you five quality innings against a good team.    

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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On 8/16/2023 at 9:40 AM, webbrick2010 said:

I'll forever remember 2023 as the season that the Rangers signed Scherzer and Montgomery, the Astros signed Verlander, the Phillies signed Lorenzen, and the O's signed freakin Flaherty.

The O's (Elias) either couldn't (Angelos) or wouldn't upgrade the roster when they had the #1 record in the American League, and a bunch of prospects wasting away in AAA.

Will they have the same chance next year? Can't be predicted

Will Angelos ever let them take a shot, I think that's a big negative.

All of these teams traded for these players, not signed them.

Record since the trade deadline (Aug 1st until Sep 8th)
Orioles : 23-10
Rangers:  16-17
Astros: 20-16
Phillies: 20-13

So despite the Orioles lackluster trade deadline acquisition (So far) of Flaherty, they've had the best record of the teams you mentioned. 

So why the negativity? 

 

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tntoriole Hangout Grand Counsel

tntoriole

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14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

All of these teams traded for these players, not signed them.

Record since the trade deadline (Aug 1st until Sep 8th)
Orioles : 23-10
Rangers:  16-17
Astros: 20-16
Phillies: 20-13

So despite the Orioles lackluster trade deadline acquisition (So far) of Flaherty, they've had the best record of the teams you mentioned. 

So why the negativity? 

 

Exactly.    For some, being “right” is far more important than facts.  Maybe with a World Series championship trophy, some people will have to acknowledge that maybe the  “well they could have done better with Scherzer “ talk was just nonsense lol  And that maybe Mike Elias is not quite as dumb as they seem to think lol 

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