John Angelos continues to remind us how awful he is

[deward]

34 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

Nashville has about a 1.5 billion dollar check waiting for any team, Johnny would be gone before you know it if he could get away with it. And I am sure he is trying to figure out a way right now. 

Perhaps. My point is that it doesn't matter what JA wants in this case. It doesn't matter right now because he doesn't own the team, so he can't do it anyway. It won't matter going forward because he can't make that move without approval of the other owners and they won't give it. Nashville is going to get an expansion team once the Oakland and Tampa situations are settled. The O's aren't moving there, no matter how much JA wants to.

[Frobby]

56 minutes ago, TradeAngelos said:

And in exchange they got to own the Nats TV rights with MASN, raking in hundreds of millions in the process. This is not and has NEVER been a "small market team". Ever, ever, ever. To act like them moving was some huge hit to the finances is absurd, it was just the opposite with all the money they could make (and steal, we later found out)  from DC. The arrangement was widely called an absolute robbery of MLB and the Nats for how good the deal was for the Orioles. But sure let's rewrite history to claim it was a turning point for the finances in a downward direction. 

I swear you people just love making excuses for this piece of trash ownership at every turn.  

We all agree our lead ownership family is awful.  Nobody makes excuses for them.  Nobody likes them.  Everybody wants to be rid of them.

But you are so fixated on it that you’ve lost touch with reality.  The O’s are a small market team.  That’s why they get extra draft picks and international allotments.  It’s not because MLB loves this organization and is giving them charity for no reason.  

We pretty much know what the O’s get from MASN.  It was a huge cash cow through the 2011 season because the Nats’ rights fees were set very low for the initial contract period.  Those rights fees are now set much higher and MASN’s profits are MUCH lower.  And, with so many consumers cutting the cord, MASN revenues will continue shrinking.  

Attendance has shrunk since the Nats arrived, and that’s just a fact.  The high mark of Orioles’ attendance the last decade, which was the year we won the AL East, is only 10,000 fans above the lowest attendance the Orioles had before the Nats arrived.  

So yeah, from the time Angelos bought the team until the Nats arrived, they were at least a mid-market team, and arguably even a large market team.  And even once the Nats arrived, MASN’s profits feathered their nest nicely through the initial contract period.  But that’s not the case now.   That’s not making excuses, those are facts.  
 

[Going Underground]

14 minutes ago, deward said:

Perhaps. My point is that it doesn't matter what JA wants in this case. It doesn't matter right now because he doesn't own the team, so he can't do it anyway. It won't matter going forward because he can't make that move without approval of the other owners and they won't give it. Nashville is going to get an expansion team once the Oakland and Tampa situations are settled. The O's aren't moving there, no matter how much JA wants to.

So you don't think the White Sox are moving there? The owner might be using them to get a better deal from Chicago.

[Moose Milligan]

Am I the only one here who finds bitching about the Angelos family exhausting?  Like, it's fine for a couple hours on a random afternoon but days and days of it is just a bit much. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Am I the only one here who finds bitching about the Angelos family exhausting?  Like, it's fine for a couple hours on a random afternoon but days and days of it is just a bit much. 

It is but it also impacts everything long term.

If you told me today that they are going to keep the team but they will allow the payroll to get into the 120-150M range and that Elias won’t be leaving, I wouldn’t care all that much since John largely stays out of the way of Elias and while his stupidity and dumb decisions and things like the Brown situation are embarrassing, they really don’t impact us that much.

But I don’t believe any of those things and I feel this guy is going to drive us back into the ground quickly.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

So you don't think the White Sox are moving there? The owner might be using them to get a better deal from Chicago.

They built their stadium before OPACY and they built a piece of junk. Now everyone has these great stadiums and he probably wants one.

Plus, all of this issues in Chicago and what Atlanta has may want him to get out of the city.

[deward]

13 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

So you don't think the White Sox are moving there? The owner might be using them to get a better deal from Chicago.

It's slightly more likely than the O's, but I still can't see it. Maaaybe Reinsdorf has enough influence to twist some other owner's arms if he really, really wanted to. The ChiSox really blew it with New Comiskey (or whatever they call it now) and they've been stuck with that for a while. I'd agree that this is just posturing to get a better stadium deal. Plan B would be moving out to the 'burbs. I can't see anyone really wanting to move one of the longest-tenured franchises in the league completely out of Chicagoland. 

[Moose Milligan]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It is but it also impacts everything long term.

If you told me today that they are going to keep the team but they will allow the payroll to get into the 120-150M range and that Elias won’t be leaving, I wouldn’t care all that much since John largely stays out of the way of Elias and while his stupidity and dumb decisions and things like the Brown situation are embarrassing, they really don’t impact us that much.

But I don’t believe any of those things and I feel this guy is going to drive us back into the ground quickly.

That's fair, I don't blame you for thinking that way.  

 

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, deward said:

It's slightly more likely than the O's, but I still can't see it. Maaaybe Reinsdorf has enough influence to twist some other owner's arms if he really, really wanted to. The ChiSox really blew it with New Comiskey (or whatever they call it now) and they've been stuck with that for a while. I'd agree that this is just posturing to get a better stadium deal. Plan B would be moving out to the 'burbs. I can't see anyone really wanting to move one of the longest-tenured franchises in the league completely out of Chicagoland. 

Probably also tired of being the Cubs little brother in that town.

MLB wants to expand. They aren’t moving teams until they have expansion. No reason to move the WS.

[deward]

 

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It is but it also impacts everything long term.

If you told me today that they are going to keep the team but they will allow the payroll to get into the 120-150M range and that Elias won’t be leaving, I wouldn’t care all that much since John largely stays out of the way of Elias and while his stupidity and dumb decisions and things like the Brown situation are embarrassing, they really don’t impact us that much.

But I don’t believe any of those things and I feel this guy is going to drive us back into the ground quickly.

Agreed. It'd be nice to have an owner who isn't an embarrassing clown, but those are thin on the ground anyway. As long as he was properly funding baseball ops and otherwise staying out of the way, and also not negatively impacting the gameday fan experience, then anything else would just be an occasional annoyance. All of these indicators point to him finding a way to screw this all up though. I'm not sure I can take another 30 years of ownership-driven futility, especially with a golden opportunity here and now to break that cycle.

[baltfan]

43 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Am I the only one here who finds bitching about the Angelos family exhausting?  Like, it's fine for a couple hours on a random afternoon but days and days of it is just a bit much. 

I agree with you.  It's all pretty silly.  Everyone acts like the young stars are willing to take Acuna-like deals but stupid Angelos won't do it.  It's also ridiculous to not think the team will have a small market budget.  They have done a great job with budget allocation the last few years, I don't understand why anyone would think that would change.  They are going to invest heavily in development and scouting realizing they can't keep everyone.  Hell, the Red Sox let Mookie walk.  People are just ridiculous.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

I agree with you.  It's all pretty silly.  Everyone acts like the young stars are willing to take Acuna-like deals but stupid Angelos won't do it.  It's also ridiculous to not think the team will have a small market budget.  They have done a great job with budget allocation the last few years, I don't understand why anyone would think that would change.  They are going to invest heavily in development and scouting realizing they can't keep everyone.  Hell, the Red Sox let Mookie walk.  People are just ridiculous.  

I don’t think you are quite grasping what people are worried about/arguing.

 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, baltfan said:

I agree with you.  It's all pretty silly.  Everyone acts like the young stars are willing to take Acuna-like deals but stupid Angelos won't do it.  It's also ridiculous to not think the team will have a small market budget.  They have done a great job with budget allocation the last few years, I don't understand why anyone would think that would change.  They are going to invest heavily in development and scouting realizing they can't keep everyone.  Hell, the Red Sox let Mookie walk.  People are just ridiculous.  

Well, a couple things here...

Yes, it can get a little silly.  

We don't know if the young stars WON'T take the Acuna-like deals.  We also don't know if any of them have been offered.  

But let's assume for a second that they haven't been offered.  Let's assume for a second that the Orioles haven't offered an extension to Henderson, Adley, G-Rod, Westy, etc.  

It's hard for a guy to turn down a deal for 8 years, 160 million...no matter what.  No matter who you are.  Especially if you're in your early to mid 20s and that's money that can set you up for the rest of your life.  And your kids, and their kids.  It's practically guaranteeing that your family will be set up for generations to come if it's all taken care of properly.  

These guys also know that it could all go south tomorrow.  Gunnar could tear an ACL and not be the same player moving forward.  He could turn into Chris Davis.  He could get cancer like Trey Mancini and not be able to mount a successful comeback like he did.  He might want to wait it out and hit free agency...but to stare a couple hundred million in the face right now and turn it down?  That's some balls.  

You're right, the Red Sox let Mookie walk and they were kind of dumb for doing that, too.  That's a guy who should have spent his career in one uniform.  Yeah, he might not be the player at the end of his career that he was at the beginning, but there's a certain type of value that comes with spending a career with one team.  

You're also correct, they're investing heavily in development and scouting and all that stuff...but that also means that a guy like Gunnar can be expendable.  That in 5 or 6 years there's another guy ready to take his spot.  I mean, people are saying that Jackson Holiday is going to be ready to play here next year, what's that mean for Gunnar and Westy?  In a few years, are we going to have guys that can take all of their places?  

Do we care if Gunnar walks in a few years and there's some hot **** prospect coming up behind him?

 

[baltfan]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Well, a couple things here...

Yes, it can get a little silly.  

We don't know if the young stars WON'T take the Acuna-like deals.  We also don't know if any of them have been offered.  

But let's assume for a second that they haven't been offered.  Let's assume for a second that the Orioles haven't offered an extension to Henderson, Adley, G-Rod, Westy, etc.  

It's hard for a guy to turn down a deal for 8 years, 160 million...no matter what.  No matter who you are.  Especially if you're in your early to mid 20s and that's money that can set you up for the rest of your life.  And your kids, and their kids.  It's practically guaranteeing that your family will be set up for generations to come if it's all taken care of properly.  

These guys also know that it could all go south tomorrow.  Gunnar could tear an ACL and not be the same player moving forward.  He could turn into Chris Davis.  He could get cancer like Trey Mancini and not be able to mount a successful comeback like he did.  He might want to wait it out and hit free agency...but to stare a couple hundred million in the face right now and turn it down?  That's some balls.  

You're right, the Red Sox let Mookie walk and they were kind of dumb for doing that, too.  That's a guy who should have spent his career in one uniform.  Yeah, he might not be the player at the end of his career that he was at the beginning, but there's a certain type of value that comes with spending a career with one team.  

You're also correct, they're investing heavily in development and scouting and all that stuff...but that also means that a guy like Gunnar can be expendable.  That in 5 or 6 years there's another guy ready to take his spot.  I mean, people are saying that Jackson Holiday is going to be ready to play here next year, what's that mean for Gunnar and Westy?  In a few years, are we going to have guys that can take all of their places?  

Do we care if Gunnar walks in a few years and there's some hot **** prospect coming up behind him?

 

If Gunnar or Adley would take an Acuna-like deal, I imagine that Elias and Sig would be screaming at Angelos he has to do it.  There would be literally no downside.  A contract like that would increase their trade value.  There is no scenario where an owner wouldn't sign a deal that increases a player's trade value.

[baltfan]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t think you are quite grasping what people are worried about/arguing.

 

Explain it to me succinctly, perhaps I am being a little dense about it.