Trade chips replaced in-house = Salary Relief

[George Zuverink]

I'm OK with these ideas if they are intended to strengthen the team, not simply putting more money in Angelos' pockets or bringing in a shiny new thing. Making trades like that to save $'s is OK can help strengthen the team if the savings are used for strategic FA signings or extensions.

[emmett16]

16 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

You think teams will give up a starter who is better than our #5 for one of our OFs?

Not alone but as part of a package.  Santander should be attractive to a team trying to compete and who has a pitching surplus.  He could be coupled with a Wells/Kremer or a prospect or two.  

Edited August 27, 2023 by emmett16

[bpilktree]

35 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I don't know how they replace Gibson's innings this year.  He's got a shot to throw the most innings in MLB this year.  Maybe Kremer is his heir apparent, but short of that they'll need to cover those innings somehow.  I'm hoping a potential trade package could net us his replacement.  Wells will go to Arb1 next year and will get a raise, but won't be incredibly expensive.  I can't see them moving him.  Pitching is something you can't have too much of, IMO.  Outside of McDermott and Povich we don't have many SPs with a shot at being productive at the MLB level next year. 

Means will replace Gibsons innings.   
 

Next year you should have.

1 Means

2 Bradish

3 Grod

4. Kremer 

5 Irvin /Wells 

Minors McDermott, Povich, Seth Johnson. 

[Aristotelian]

I don't think Cowser/Kjerstad/Mayo are locks to outperform Hays/Urias/Santander, even relative to the savings. Those are pretty good players they need to surpass. Frazier and Mateo are no brainers.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, emmett16 said:

I don't know how they replace Gibson's innings this year.  He's got a shot to throw the most innings in MLB this year.  Maybe Kremer is his heir apparent, but short of that they'll need to cover those innings somehow.  I'm hoping a potential trade package could net us his replacement.  Wells will go to Arb1 next year and will get a raise, but won't be incredibly expensive.  I can't see them moving him.  Pitching is something you can't have too much of, IMO.  Outside of McDermott and Povich we don't have many SPs with a shot at being productive at the MLB level next year. 

Bradish, GRod, Means, Wells, Kremer, Irvin, Hall, McDermott next year's starters.  I don't think Gibson is back next season.

Edited August 27, 2023 by wildcard

[drdelaware]

The Orioles payroll is low enough to not have to worry about cost cutting.  Now if you are talking about trades to improve the ballclub that’s another story.

[wildcard]

I think there will be cost cutting for cheap players but maybe not has much as the OP suggests.

Gibbons 10m >>>>>>> Means 5M

Frazier  8M >>>>>>>> Westburg 730K

Givens  5M >>>>>>>> Webb 1.2M

Mateo 2M >>>>>>>> Ortiz 730K

Voth 1.85M >>>>>>>>Baker 740K with an option

Flaherty 1.8M >>>>>>>Hall 730K

TBD whether Santander and Fuji are back

Infield - Mountcastle, O"Hearn, Westburg, Gunnar, Urias, Ortiz

Outfield - Hays, Mullins, Santander, Cowser, Kjerstad

Catcher - Adley, McCann

Starters - Bradish, GRod, Means, Kremer, Wells

Relievers - Cano, Perez, Coulombe, Webb, Baumann, Hall, Irvin, Baker,  (Maybe Fuji) TBD - Bautista

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by wildcard

[7Mo]

2 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

I'm not sure they trade both Santander and Hays, nor am I certain that both Urias and Mateo will be gone.

 

I agree. I think Santander is traded along with one of Urias or Mateo. I'd guess Urias has the far higher trade value over Mateo and they'll keep Mateo as insurance (although dubious) for Ortiz being added to the lineup. 

Doubt both Hays and Santander are traded UNLESS Elias and co have their eyes on an outfielder they can bring in as a waiver claim or very low cost pickup that they feel very good about turning around. 

Counting on both Kjerstad and Cowser to establish themselves at the same time seems like more risk than Elias would want.  I'm sure Elias is mindful of "sure thing" Kyle Tucker taking a few years to establish himself.  

I was really hoping the trade deadline netted us Dylan Carlson who seems far more talented than he's played to date. I'd bet our development team could unlock some stuff with him. And that would give Elias his switch hitting outfielder who could play center in a pinch. 

[Frobby]

Let’s say the O’s win 95+ games.  How often do teams like that make wholesale changes that aren’t required due to free agency?  I can see them moving 1-2 players, but I’m not expecting to see a third of the lineup turned over.  

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s say the O’s win 95+ games.  How often do teams like that make wholesale changes that aren’t required due to free agency?  I can see them moving 1-2 players, but I’m not expecting to see a third of the lineup turned over.  

Maybe more of them should?

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Maybe more of them should?

I can see the point of not wanting to drastically shake up a team that’s playing well together, especially when you’re talking about a bunch of guys still in their 20’s.  It’s tricky, since the group we have in the minors is very talented, cheaper and have more service time.  I just doubt Elias goes all-in on one approach or the other.  Something in between is what I expect.   It will be an interesting offseason, for sure.  

[emmett16]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s say the O’s win 95+ games.  How often do teams like that make wholesale changes that aren’t required due to free agency?  I can see them moving 1-2 players, but I’m not expecting to see a third of the lineup turned over.  

Definitely not often.  How often does this team do things traditionally?  The only reason I think it's possible is because of the quality and experience of the guys in AAA.  Cowser will be 24 and has had 424 AAA PAs to date, Ortiz will be 25 and has had 476 PAs, and Kjerstad will be 25 and has had 272 PAs to date.  Mayo & Holiday are the wildcards to me, but also have the biggest upside.  Maybe he holds both back another year, as they are the youngsters @ 21 & 19 respectively, and goes for ROY awards with those two guys in 2025.  

[Flash- bd]

5 hours ago, emmett16 said:

I don't know how they replace Gibson's innings this year.  He's got a shot to throw the most innings in MLB this year.  Maybe Kremer is his heir apparent, but short of that they'll need to cover those innings somehow.  I'm hoping a potential trade package could net us his replacement.  Wells will go to Arb1 next year and will get a raise, but won't be incredibly expensive.  I can't see them moving him.  Pitching is something you can't have too much of, IMO.  Outside of McDermott and Povich we don't have many SPs with a shot at being productive at the MLB level next year. 

Hall, for me. 

[emmett16]

4 hours ago, bpilktree said:

Means will replace Gibsons innings.   
 

Next year you should have.

1 Means

2 Bradish

3 Grod

4. Kremer 

5 Irvin /Wells 

Minors McDermott, Povich, Seth Johnson. 

I like that SP depth.  But I'd like to see one of the guys I mentioned coupled with Wells or Kremer for an impact starter.   The SP would look great With 1. Means, 2. Bradish, 3.  GRod, 4. Kremer, 5. Impact trade acquisiton and then the AAA depth you mentioned.  

Edited August 27, 2023 by emmett16

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, Flash- bd said:

Hall, for me. 

That's fair.  I'm still a Hall fan, but I'd like to see him in the pen as a Hader type performer next year as he works out his control/command and then vying for a rotation spot in 2025.