John Means 2023 (finally)

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

One of the wild things about looking back on that no-hitter (all 27 outs HERE if you want to see a condensed version) is how far the team has come in about 28 months. That day, we had:

Pedro Severino catching. 

Pat Valaika at 2B. 

Ramon Urias at SS. 

Maikel Franco at 3B (replaced by Rio Ruiz for defense).

DJ Stewart in RF. 

Jorge Lopez starting the previous game.

Matt Harvey following him the next day. 

 

[Spy Fox]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

One of the wild things about looking back on that no-hitter (all 27 outs HERE if you want to see a condensed version) is how far the team has come in about 28 months. That day, we had:

Pedro Severino catching. 

That's all you gotta say, especially since it would have been a perfect game if not for a not-that-wild-pitch strikeout that got past Severino. 

[Hallas]

Felt like a bit of tough luck.  Goldschmidt tomahawks a ball at his collar bone, and then he hangs a slider on a guy that has a .350 SLG and he hits it out.  The other hits were dying quails.

 

The slider on Palacio was a mistake, but you usually are ok making those kind of mistakes on guys with no power.  Go figure he hits 2 out today.

[Roy Firestone]

Rays lose... so in a way, we kindve won...we lost NO ground to the Rays and got our "ACE" (next year maybe) back on the mound with a respectable performance that gave us a chance to win...I was fine with John tonight...it will be interesting to see how he fares with bigger bats like Houston...but I think he's already better than Flaherty because he doesn't walk people..

[Brooks The Great]

34 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

Rays lose... so in a way, we kindve won...we lost NO ground to the Rays and got our "ACE" (next year maybe) back on the mound with a respectable performance that gave us a chance to win...I was fine with John tonight...it will be interesting to see how he fares with bigger bats like Houston...but I think he's already better than Flaherty because he doesn't walk people..

I thought Means looked very good tonight, especially considering it was his first start back. The top of the 2nd inning tonight was a good bit of bad luck. Him hitting 93 regularly is a good sign.

The Cardinals lineup is quality. Jordan Walker is going to be a great major league hitter, and he was hitting 8th tonight.

I simply don't trust Flaherty and Gibson with the way they've both been pitching the past 2 months. And the bullpen isn't going to be able to hold up with a 6-man rotation with those 2 guys pitching as poorly as they have been, mixed in with whenever Kremer and Grayson can't go deep into games. 

It would be huge for this team if Means could replace Flaherty and go back to a 5-man rotation, with Irvin and Gibson competing for the 5th spot. Maybe make the 5th spot completely matchup-based, and start Irvin against lineups with more left-handed hitters. 

[sportsfan8703]

Hung a meatball to Goldy in the first. Didn’t seem to get the borderline calls that Wainwright was somehow getting early on. Overall, a decent/so-so outing versus a good hitting team. These aren’t the Royals or Athletics. 

The most encouraging thing is that Means is healthy and hitting 94. 

[Sports Guy]

He threw a lot of strikes but only 1 K and didn’t miss many bats. That needs to improve to be part of the postseason roster imo.

[waroriole]

12 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Hung a meatball to Goldy in the first. Didn’t seem to get the borderline calls that Wainwright was somehow getting early on. Overall, a decent/so-so outing versus a good hitting team. These aren’t the Royals or Athletics. 

The most encouraging thing is that Means is healthy and hitting 94. 

I’m assuming you didn’t see the pitch to Goldschmidt. It was up at his shoulders. Certainly not a meatball. 

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Rays lose... so in a way, we kindve won...we lost NO ground to the Rays

This time of year, with the O’s leading by 3 games (4 in the loss column), any day where we lose no ground and there are fewer games left to play is a good day for us.   

[wildcard]

John says he did not have his breaking pitches last night.   That means he went 5 innings on a fastball and change up.   On a night where he has three pitches he will go 6 and give up 2.      The thing that is great is he is a fresh arm at a time will some of the O's pitching staff is very tired.

[banks703]

The Goldy homer was just a great hitter (with something like 350 career homers) and reigning NL MVP clobbering a high, out of the zone pitch that most hitters aren't going to 1. chase 2. catch 3. make hard contact 4. certainly not take yard. You just have to tip your cap to Goldschmidt there. I actually just saw the replay on this, like ten seconds ago. The ball was legitimately above McCann's head, letter-high on Goldschmidt. 

Palacios (coming into the game with all of 1 career homeruns) took advantage of a very lousy breaking ball from John that just barely got over the scoreboard.

Both homers hurt but on a night when he didn't have his breaking ball command, Means going 5 innings while giving up only the five hits (the three other hits were legit dying quails) is a good sign, especially against a decent Cards lineup who have played well the last two weeks, going 8-5 in that span, including the win last night.

I was a little surprised by some of the defensive positioning on some of the batted balls and yeah, I'd like to see more swing-and-miss from Means but he looked pretty good for his first time back with the big club. For everyone who had concern of his velo, he was hitting 94 last night with his 4seamer averaging 92.5. For comparison, the same pitch averaged:

92.3 in 2022

92.9 in 2021

93.9 in 2020

91.9 in 2019

So, the guy pitching last night was pretty much the guy who pitched those other years with 2020 being more the anomaly to his career norms. Ben said on the broadcast last night that he was interested in the velo himself but also added that on rehabs, what guys do in the minors, you can add 1 - 2 mph to their velo when they get back with the big club. I think there's a chance that Means continues to add velo as he gets more innings but I maintain that he doesn't need the added velo to be successful. Command of his breaking stuff would have helped him more last night than touching 95mph on his 4S. 

I'm very encouraged by the outing. I think he's going to make a difference for the O's down the stretch. As it stands right now, it looks like he's lining up to throw in Houston against Verlander next week then again in Cleveland and the last game of the year at home against Boston.. obviously that's subject to change with his and the other starters' performances.

Edited September 13, 2023 by banks703

[Otter]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

He threw a lot of strikes but only 1 K and didn’t miss many bats. That needs to improve to be part of the postseason roster imo.

This.  Control was outstanding for his first start back, but hitters looked very comfortable against him.  Hopefully his secondaries will sharpen up in the next few starts.  

[Jim'sKid26]

44 minutes ago, wildcard said:

John says he did not have his breaking pitches last night.   That means he went 5 innings on a fastball and change up.   On a night where he has three pitches he will go 6 and give up 2.      The thing that is great is he is a fresh arm at a time will some of the O's pitching staff is very tired.

So a fresh, recently surgically repaired arm. 

[Gunnar]

Means pitched well and got unlucky, Wainwright pitched well and got lucky... next

[George Zuverink]

55 minutes ago, Gunnar said:

Means pitched well and got unlucky, Wainwright pitched well and got lucky... next

True 'dat!