Who is the most underrated Oriole of all time?

[Moose Milligan]

The Adam Jones thread quickly delved into where he fits as an all-time Oriole.  From the looks of it, most people are comfortable putting him somewhere in the top 20, this includes metrics (a WAR war) and perceived meaning and impact to the team/leadership aka the touchy-feelies.

The Jones thread is a good distraction from the recent skid this team has hit.  And as I'm sitting here on a Friday afternoon procrastinating work and trying not to think about Jack Flaherty going against Tampa tonight, I'm admittedly looking for another distraction.  

So who is the most underrated Oriole of all time?  This could be a good debate.  The term underrated can have a pretty broad meaning, so be sure to include your definition of it, too.

[DrungoHazewood]

Could be Bobby Grich, because he's mainly remembered today as some guy from 40-50 years ago the stat guys want to go to the Hall of Fame.

But he was tremendously valuable, just in ways that didn't typically get recognition in the times when he played. He got on base constantly, but wasn't really a base stealer or a leadoff hitter. And this was that bizarro era where leadoff hitters were guys like Omar Moreno with .305 OBPes, 88 steals, and 78 runs scored.

He had good power for the time, but not 30 homer power. His biggest HR year came in a strike year so it gets an asterisk. Memorial Stadium was a pitcher's park.

Was an excellent defensive player, at least as an Oriole. Got traded to California, so he disappeared from the radar of East Coasters for much of his career.

Had his career delayed by at least a year because the Orioles were stacked. In 1970 he had a 1.074 OPS at Rochester and then spent almost all of '71 back at Rochester.

Anyway, he's a good candidate.

Another is Jack Bentley. In 1921 he hit .412 with 47 doubles, 16 triples, 24 homers, and went 12-1, 2.34 on the mound.

And another is Bob Emslie. Went 32-17 for the 1884 Orioles and not a single one of you has ever heard of him.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Mike Cuellar is a name I don’t hear much when it comes to past Orioles. The Orioles had a really good trio of starting pitchers in Palmer, McNally and Cuellar. 

Cuellar won the Cy Young in 1969 and over eight seasons with Orioles went 143-88 with a 3.18 ERA. 
 

[Big Al]

Joe Orsulak

[Pickles]

Ironically, it may be Brady Anderson.

How many people knew Brady had more WAR than Jones over their careers?

I think he's remembered almost solely for his 50 hr campaign, and seen as a "one hit wonder" while failing to acknowledge that he had two other seasons over 5 WAR.  A mark Jonesy never reached.

I'd also nominate Chris Hoiles.  He's underappreciated.

I play a baseball sim game on whatifsports occasionally, and I almost always grab Hoiles at catcher, because his rate stats are crazy impressive for a catcher.  He OPSed over 1000 over 500 PAs in 1993!

[FlaO'sFan]

In recent times maybe Miguel Gonzalez.

[baltfan]

39 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

The Adam Jones thread quickly delved into where he fits as an all-time Oriole.  From the looks of it, most people are comfortable putting him somewhere in the top 20, this includes metrics (a WAR war) and perceived meaning and impact to the team/leadership aka the touchy-feelies.

The Jones thread is a good distraction from the recent skid this team has hit.  And as I'm sitting here on a Friday afternoon procrastinating work and trying not to think about Jack Flaherty going against Tampa tonight, I'm admittedly looking for another distraction.  

So who is the most underrated Oriole of all time?  This could be a good debate.  The term underrated can have a pretty broad meaning, so be sure to include your definition of it, too.

Your namesake shouldn't be at the top but should be on the list.

[Say O!]

1/ Ken Singleton — great OBP before was appreciated beyond Earl.

2/ Paul Blair — recognized for defense but better offensive player than remembered, but was kinda washed up by age 31.

3/ Chris Hoiles — overshadowed by other stars during his tenure (Ripken, Palmiero, Alomar) but he was outstanding when healthy.  Counting stats and WAR hindered by fact he rarely played more than 100 games/yr  

 

 

[ledzepp8]

It would most likely have to be Bobby Grich. He should arguably be in the HOF.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

31 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Your namesake shouldn't be at the top but should be on the list.

Randy Milligan has a better career if he came up today as MLB teams would have promoted him faster recognizing his talent at working pitch counts and drawing walks.

Plus Milligan would have been able to rehabilitate his knee injury that he suffered in 1990 with today’s modern medical procedures. 

[SteveA]

47 minutes ago, Say O! said:

1/ Ken Singleton — great OBP before was appreciated beyond Earl.

2/ Paul Blair — recognized for defense but better offensive player than remembered, but was kinda washed up by age 31.

3/ Chris Hoiles — overshadowed by other stars during his tenure (Ripken, Palmiero, Alomar) but he was outstanding when healthy.  Counting stats and WAR hindered by fact he rarely played more than 100 games/yr  

 

 

I came on here to say Singleton but you beat me to it.

[Frobby]

My vote is for Merv Rettenmund, worth 17.0 rWAR in 6 seasons 1968-73.  He had seasons of 4.8, 5.9 and 4.2 rWAR.  I bet more than half the posters here have never heard of him.

The real Moose Milligan also was quite underrated.  

[Aristotelian]

I like the names of Hoiles and Grich. From recent teams I would also throw out Chen. For some reason Tillman was generally regarded as the number one but I think Chen was almost or even equally good.

For value picks I would go with O'Day and Orosco. 

And for deep value, my favorite is the lefty masher Geronimo Berroa.

[Morgan423]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

My vote is for Merv Rettenmund, worth 17.0 rWAR in 6 seasons 1968-73.  He had seasons of 4.8, 5.9 and 4.2 rWAR.  I bet more than half the posters here have never heard of him.

The real Moose Milligan also was quite underrated.  

Wait... are you implying that our Moose Milligan is not the real one?!

[btdart20]

My fanhood only goes back to '89, but seeing Hoiles' name mentioned passes the sniff test.