Jump to content

Santander for Bieber

Sports Guy

By Sports Guy
in Orioles Talk

 Share

Santander for Bieber  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you trade Santander for Shane Bieber?

    • Yes
      53
    • No
      33

Recommended Posts

Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
Posted
Just now, RZNJ said:

We won 101 games because of guys like Henderson, Bradish, and Bautista, among others, who hadn’t proven a damn thing 1-2 years ago.

But... they were complemented by guys like Santander who (somehow) quietly added MOO production. I'm hopeful that Kjerstad and Cowser can provide it in the future, but I'm just not ready to count on 2 rookies to fill Santander's role yet. 

And in my response to the OP, I said I would do the trade if I thought there was a FA who could be signed to fill Santander's production. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 198
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

sportsfan8703
sportsfan8703

I think we're better off with... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Kremer, Gibson/Wells/Hall/Irvin + Santander  than.... Bradish, Grayson, Means, Bieber, Kremer w/o Santander

Frobby
Frobby

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might,

forphase1
forphase1

Just to be clear,  only once in his career has Santander had a .800 OPS or better.   It is possible?  Of course it's possible.   Is it so probable that a team with WS aspirations can write it in ink? 

Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s because you are greatly overrating a very small sample size and ignoring many other things.

The thing I don’t understand about Os fans (and I’m saying this in general, not about any one in particular) is how we praise Elias for what he has built. We drool over the farm system and the glowing reports about it…and then when it comes time to bring them up or if they don’t immediately produce, we want to toss them aside and forget all of that.

It makes no sense to me. You either believe in these guys or you don’t.

I think you are aiming something unrealistic at me. I'm not saying don't give Kjerstad and Cowser a chance to step up. I"m saying don't be surprised if they struggle. 

There are other positions on the field where the O's can try to add a run producer through trade or FA. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

But... they were complemented by guys like Santander who (somehow) quietly added MOO production. I'm hopeful that Kjerstad and Cowser can provide it in the future, but I'm just not ready to count on 2 rookies to fill Santander's role yet. 

And in my response to the OP, I said I would do the trade if I thought there was a FA who could be signed to fill Santander's production. 

If you’re not ready now you’ll never be ready.  We’ll have to replace every departing veteran with another proven veteran.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I think you are aiming something unrealistic at me. I'm not saying don't give Kjerstad and Cowser a chance to step up. I"m saying don't be surprised if they struggle. 

There are other positions on the field where the O's can try to add a run producer through trade or FA. 

You are trying to find a run producer and I too would like to add a MOO bat but I don’t see that player out there. 
 

That said, Santander isn’t a true MOO bat himself and if you use him to upgrade pitching, that puts you in the same place you are now and then you add in the player who replaces him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jagwar Hangout Grand Counsel

Jagwar

Posted
Posted
Just now, Sports Guy said:

You are trying to find a run producer and I too would like to add a MOO bat but I don’t see that player out there. 
 

That said, Santander isn’t a true MOO bat himself and if you use him to upgrade pitching, that puts you in the same place you are now and then you add in the player who replaces him.

Well now that is a different proposition yes? Does trading Santander for a pitching upgrade actually improve aggregate value? Then I'm all for it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
Just now, Jagwar said:

Do you want to field a team with all rookies?

You mean, kind of like the Reds did last year?   It’s not realistic this year but Cowser, Kjerstad, Holliday, Mayo, even Ortiz could all be playing prominent roles by the 2nd half.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I'm not sure I even have 50% confidence, not when I want the O's to take the next step towards a WS. I hope our rookies can thrive, but the landscape has changed.  

Okay.  You don’t have confidence in the young guys.  I do.  And I don’t care about the landscape changing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pickles Hangout Grand Counsel

Pickles

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Well now that is a different proposition yes? Does trading Santander for a pitching upgrade actually improve aggregate value? Then I'm all for it. 

Who is likely to produce more WAR next year?

Santander or Bieber?

Santander seems the easy choice.

  • Upvote 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RZNJ Hangout Grand Counsel

RZNJ

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Who is likely to produce more WAR next year?

Santander or Bieber?

Santander seems the easy choice.

Bieber 1.8 WAR in 21 starts.  Santander 3.0 in 153 games.  Should be pretty close IF Bieber can make 30 starts like he did in 2022.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Posts

    • CaptainRedbeard
      How much faith do you have in Elias to address the needs this month?

      By CaptainRedbeard · Posted

      I have total faith that he will get a SP and a RP, and those will be without trading any of the top 3 prospects. And the only player Kjerstad could go for is Crochet. (I don’t think Skubal will even be available, and even if the Tigers listen on him he won’t be dealt.) What I don’t have total faith in is how good those SP and RP will be. I think the trade deadline is very unpredictable, and Elias is not the type to overpay to get Option A. He’s more likely to get outbid on Option A and pivot to Options B, C or D at better value, and that all has to happen very quickly in a compressed timeframe right before the deadline. So if things don’t break right they easily could end up with some underwhelming guys like last year.
    • sportsfan8703
      Skubal trade..Kjerstad, Mountcastle, McDermott and Bradfield?

      By sportsfan8703 · Posted

      Things to consider… We’re sort of pot committed to try and win a WS this year since we have Butnes.  What has more value?  Skubal for 3 postseasons or Holliday for 6?  Give me the SP.  Isn’t it risk adverse to acquire Skubal and have a big 3 rotation to limit having a red hot lineup beat you?  Ala Rangers.  If not Skubal now, we still have to make a big trade in the offseason to replace Burnes. Why not make the trade now and have that SP paired with Burnes?
    • Can_of_corn
      Skubal trade..Kjerstad, Mountcastle, McDermott and Bradfield?

      By Can_of_corn · Posted

      Are they? Wells doesn't throw hard by today's standards, neither does Means.  
    • Bemorewins
      Skubal trade..Kjerstad, Mountcastle, McDermott and Bradfield?

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      IMO I see Skubal as helping us much more than Fedde next year.  I’m concerned about this outlier season from Fedde as nothing more than catching lightening in a bottle (especially at his age and with his track record before this season). Also, for all of the concern over Skubal and Crochet’s innings, Fedde has only thrown something like 133 innings as a career high in a single season.
    • RZNJ
      The 2024 Trade Deadline

      By RZNJ · Posted

      With the caveat that we may have to trade some of their best friends to get those guys.  Do you regard Scherzer as a TOR pitcher you’d be happy getting as the top get?
    • UMDTerrapins
      Skubal trade..Kjerstad, Mountcastle, McDermott and Bradfield?

      By UMDTerrapins · Posted

      I’m gonna play devils advocate for giggles.  As much as I want to win 2024, I don’t want to trade any of our standout prospects for a starter. I’m growing more and more fond of pitchers who have success because of pitch location and don’t max out on velocity. They’re less sexy, but they’re less vulnerable to TJ and cost less to acquire. Skubal is undoubtedly one of the best pitchers in baseball, but he’s upped his velocity each of the past two years. Means was a middling prospect until he found more velocity…..until he wrecked his arm. How are we going to feel about our competitive window if we give a huge haul for someone like Skubal and he’s under the knife in August? If the Royals stank and Seth Lugo was available, that’s the kind of guy I’d be targeting at a smaller cost of talent. Only a few teams are really out of the WC. If Oakland would trade Joey Estes for Connor Norby (spitballing suggestion only, don’t attack me), we’d probably lose our minds that ME didn’t shoot higher. But all things considered, including risk aversion, I’m not convinced that kind of pitcher and trade (preferably a lefty) wouldn’t be better for us. I don’t want to be on the flip side of a Bedard trade. We can sign a top FA starter (Rubenstein willing) who blows out his arm and not be deeply impacted, but we shouldn’t spend our prospect capital for a short term ace rental who’s lost to injury for his tenure….I’m more inclined to protect our competitive window. 
    • Bemorewins
      Skubal trade..Kjerstad, Mountcastle, McDermott and Bradfield?

      By Bemorewins · Posted

      I don’t think any pitcher is a given. All of them carry the risk of the next pitch being the last for the season. But risk should be weighed vs potential reward. The proposition to be considered is what is more risky? Acquiring a starter with very high potential for reward (like Skubal) who is at risk for injury vs. acquiring a lesser talented starter who offers less upside yet still is at risk for injury vs. doing nothing/rolling with what we have with pitchers who are almost assuredly to give you a much lower ceiling and still carry the risk of injury.

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...