MLB Offseason Moves/Rumor Thread

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

It's harder to buy the arms than thought.

Are you suggesting that Elias hasn't managed to get a grip on the cost of pitching? 

[interloper]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you suggesting that Elias hasn't managed to get a grip on the cost of pitching? 

Trade-wise, maybe. But he would have known the deal from last year's deadline. So for me it's more an unwillingness to participate at the price point (trade-wise) than misreading the market. He knows the market. He may be in denial of that market or overplaying his hand. Or he will eventually make some reasonably smart trades. We will see. 

Edited December 13, 2023 by interloper

[Can_of_corn]

52 minutes ago, interloper said:

Trade-wise, maybe. But he would have known the deal from last year's deadline. So for me it's more an unwillingness to participate at the price point (trade-wise) than misreading the market. He knows the market. He may be in denial of that market or overplaying his hand. Or he will eventually make some reasonably smart trades. We will see. 

If the plan is to trade for or sign pitching you need to be willing to accept the cost of implementing that plan.

Or maybe things will keep going right anyway?  That'd be sweet.

[interloper]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If the plan is to trade for or sign pitching you need to be willing to accept the cost of implementing that plan.

Or maybe things will keep going right anyway?  That'd be sweet.

Agreed, but let's not pretend like if he makes a super lopsided trade that he wouldn't be skewered around here. He still has to make a sensible trade. It's unclear right now if other teams are being unreasonable or if we're being too reluctant. It's worrying how long Chicago is waiting on Cease. That makes me think either they never really intended to trade him and are just fishing for a super lopsided deal and wasting everyone's time, or that there's a current bidding war for him and we will either get outbid or pay way too much. 

Personally, I think there's a little too much heat surrounding Cease and I would like Elias to use that ivy league brain of his to find something more interesting and under-the-radar. 

[24fps]

5 minutes ago, interloper said:

Agreed, but let's not pretend like if he makes a super lopsided trade that he wouldn't be skewered around here. He still has to make a sensible trade. It's unclear right now if other teams are being unreasonable or if we're being too reluctant. It's worrying how long Chicago is waiting on Cease. That makes me think either they never really intended to trade him and are just fishing for a super lopsided deal and wasting everyone's time, or that there's a current bidding war for him and we will either get outbid or pay way too much. 

Personally, I think there's a little too much heat surrounding Cease and I would like Elias to use that ivy league brain of his to find something more interesting and under-the-radar. 

It's two months before pitchers and catchers report so I think it would be strange if the White Sox weren't taking their time right now.  I'm sure that they've explored general trade parameters with several clubs including the O's, but Snell, Montgomery and Yamamoto are still out there so it make sense for them to see how many big spenders are desperate for pitching after those three sign.  The O's remain the best match unless the WS want pitching, or another club is willing to overpay by substantial amount.

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, 24fps said:

It's two months before pitchers and catchers report so I think it would be strange if the White Sox weren't taking their time right now.  I'm sure that they've explored general trade parameters with several clubs including the O's, but Snell, Montgomery and Yamamoto are still out there so it make sense for them to see how many big spenders are desperate for pitching after those three sign.  The O's remain the best match unless the WS want pitching, or another club is willing to overpay by substantial amount.

Yeah, that's a reasonable take. It probably does make sense for them - and other teams - to wait a bit. 

[sportsfan8703]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Are you suggesting that Elias hasn't managed to get a grip on the cost of pitching? 

Elias knows the cost of pitching, but he also knows he needs these pieces to keep winning,

2B/SS - Holliday

C - Basallo

3B - Mayo

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

CF - EBJ

He can’t trade any of those with our budget. Especially if he wants to sign anyone to extensions. So if we trade for Cease, or Burnes, it will have to be from the tiers of prospects below those 6. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Elias knows the cost of pitching, but he also knows he needs these pieces to keep winning,

2B/SS - Holliday

C - Basallo

3B - Mayo

LF - Cowser

RF - Kjerstad

CF - EBJ

He can’t trade any of those with our budget. Especially if he wants to sign anyone to extensions. So if we trade for Cease, or Burnes, it will have to be from the tiers of prospects below those 6. 

This isn’t true

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, interloper said:

Trade-wise, maybe. But he would have known the deal from last year's deadline. So for me it's more an unwillingness to participate at the price point (trade-wise) than misreading the market. He knows the market. He may be in denial of that market or overplaying his hand. Or he will eventually make some reasonably smart trades. We will see. 

I don’t understand why people are so impatient.  Elias is a patient guy, and patience is a virtue when it comes to trades.   If the logical trade targets go elsewhere for less than we should have been willing to give up, I’ll worry about it.  I don’t see the absence of a trade so far as a “failure.”  

[Can_of_corn]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t understand why people are so impatient.  Elias is a patient guy, and patience is a virtue when it comes to trades.   If the logical trade targets go elsewhere for less than we should have been willing to give up, I’ll worry about it.  I don’t see the absence of a trade so far as a “failure.”  

Because last year we ended up with Gibson and Irvin during the offseason and Flaherty and Fujinami at the deadline.

Edit- I also question if patience is always a virtue when it comes to trades.  I think sometimes you have to be aggressive and set the market or you risk losing out.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Can_of_corn

[DenaOsHon]

And we still won 101 games. I am in full support of trades  and or FA signings but I don't expect Elias to give away any of our Top 5 unless it for a multi-year control guy not named Cease. I also believe that they will continue to keep payroll low while working through a potential sale and or new minority ownership group. Too many unknowns right now imo

[interloper]

26 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t understand why people are so impatient.  Elias is a patient guy, and patience is a virtue when it comes to trades.   If the logical trade targets go elsewhere for less than we should have been willing to give up, I’ll worry about it.  I don’t see the absence of a trade so far as a “failure.”  

I'm a little less worried about patience than I am conservatism when it comes to Elias and trades. I think Elias has been engaged in talks immediately after the season, so he's out there working. But he has played it REAL safe with his prospects in trades, only dealing from the very fringes (Hernaiz, Rom, Prieto, Showalter, Lucas) so far, with little to show for it aside from Irvin being a somewhat useful, controllable swingman. 

I think if there's impatience, it's to confirm whether or not Elias has another gear. I am personally very eager to find out.

Edited December 13, 2023 by interloper

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, DenaOsHon said:

And we still won 101 games

...and got boat raced in the playoffs. 

[Roll Tide]

 

[Ripken]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because last year we ended up with Gibson and Irvin during the offseason and Flaherty and Fujinami at the deadline.

It's not a mystery.  Elias, himself, has said repeatedly that we need to acquire a good/3-ish starter and, for the last two trade deadlines, and last two off seasons, he hasn't done it.  "But it's only [looks at phone] December 13th!!!!"  And then it will only be Jan 20th, and Feb 10th, and March 1st, and so on.  One of these times, he'll actually bring in good talent from the outside, spending real money and/or prospects, and that will be awesome, but it's been an extremely long wait. 

I love Elias and he's done a wonderful job.  Everyone knows "they won 101 games!!" but they didn't win a single game in the playoffs.  Surely this is about JA being a miserable cheapskate but that just makes the clocks on Adley and Gunnar as Orioles start ticking louder so I'm not so sure patience is such a virtue here.