What about Mayo?

[interloper]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Why does it matter that they are right handed?

 

Yeah maybe I'm a little off-base here, I dunno. 

I hate the thought of Urias and Mateo on the bench again. Moving one of them really frees up so many things. I probably prefer Holliday at 2B over Westburg, and Mayo at 3B for his bat over Westburg. But Westburg seems weird as a bench bat. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by interloper

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, RZNJ said:

As of today, Westburg is the 2B and Urías is the 3B.  If Ortiz is not traded he’s certainly in that mix.  I see Urias more likely to be traded if Ortiz is around since Westburg, Henderson, and Ortiz can all play multiple positions and it makes it easier to carry Mateo as the sub.   I see two openings for prospects.  DH (Kjerstad?) and 3B/2B (Westburg plays one of them).

If Urias is the everyday 3B on opening day, then either Mayo had an awful spring training or there needs to be questions about the Orioles ability to use there in house talent. 

[CaptainRedbeard]

The fact that we just had Adley and Gunnar, and now have Holliday and Basallo, really is causing Mayo to fly under the radar some. Maybe not on the OH but anywhere else he’s often viewed as an expendable piece or trade bait for a pitcher.

Mayo’s ceiling is crazy high. He thoroughly destroyed AA pitching and after a mediocre start at AAA, was on an absolute tear to finish the year. He just turned 22 a few days ago.  He’s shown tons of power and great EVs, lots of walks, and a pretty great K rate within the context of all the power/walks.  His K and BB actually improved slightly in AAA. I think it’s widely assumed that Holliday could come into Spring Training and look so ready for the show that there’s no way they could send him down, but Mayo could just as easily do the same. 

[interloper]

10 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

If Urias is the everyday 3B on opening day, then either Mayo had an awful spring training or there needs to be questions about the Orioles ability to use there in house talent. 

Well, or Westburg is at 3B and Holliday is at 2B.  Or the Orioles really want to watch things burn and they bring in the lefty Matt Carpenter to play 3B as the new Frazier-type since he's basically free. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by interloper

[LookinUp]

2 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

Sure but I have always been a defender of Mateo because he’s a player with very high potential at times. I was also a person saying he should start every game vs LHP in postseason. He should spend the offseason practicing center field and left field. He could be add value vs LHP at those positions compared to Hays and Mullins. Postseason success means a lot to me personally. That’s the difference between Brooks Robinson and Alex Rodriguez. Not saying Mateo is more than a platoon player.

Mateo had some good runs against LHP last year, to the tune of a .746 OPS. Still, his career OPS against LHP is only .667. It's even lower against RHP.

I think he has a niche spot on a contending team for sure, but forcing him into the lineup against LHP probably won't pay off over time as much as we might hope. I would treat him as a pure bench piece who gets spot starts and comes in late for defense or pinch running.

[Safelykept]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Let's talk when Mountcastle has an .893 OPS across an entire season.

 

 

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

How is Mountcastle redundant?  He had an .893 OPS after his bout with Vertigo last year. If they did a 2nd half MVP, he’d be in the top 5 in the AL. 

They don't have a 2nd half MVP or a month by month one for that matter. Mountcastle been hot and cold since he came into the league. Hes redundant because he plays a position that many can play including the Title of this thread + ( Santa, Ohearn, Rush, Mcann,etc) If hes not redundant whats his trade value. A top 5 MVP candidate?

[Safelykept]

2 hours ago, CP0861 said:

Gotcha, great logic for keeping him...since they won 101 games, I'm wrong and Mountcastle is a stud.   By that logic, everything is perfect and they don't ever need to change a thing, right?  I never mentioned Mayo, but he's one of multiple guys who can probably put up a whopping 18 HR's as a "clean up hitter" like Mountcastle did in 2023.

Sorry you don't like it, but he was flat out mediocre for most of last season....except for about 35 games. But hey, go ahead and crown him with your made up partial season award if you want to. 

 

Plus he was the only one that hit Clean Up last year?

[CP0861]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

Yeah,  basically.   Mayo has shown all he needs against AAA competition.  Holiday hasn't yet.   I believe that if both were given MLB at bats today that Mayo would out perform Holiday at least for the first couple of months.   Long term I think Holiday will be a better mlb hitter,  but Mayo is more ready today IMO.  Speaking bat only,  not fielding of course. 

I would politely disagree. Holiday didn't scorch at AAA like he has at each of the other levels, but he had a better start there than Mayo did. I think Holiday was 0-for his 1st 3 games, but aside from that, he did just fine. He also looked great in ST considering he was barely 19 and only had like 20 pro games under his belt. I don't think Holliday NEEDS more time in the minors. They might/probably will send him down, but it will likely be for (a combination of) other reasons more than it will be developing his bat. His bat plays now.

Mayo ended up hot obviously and put up good numbers, but I think people are discounting Holiday simply because of his age and it's so easy to say "he needs more experience". His bat is special and his eye is on another level - he gets on base 45% of the time, which is essentially unheard of. He doesn't hit for big power yet, but it's also not like he hasn't shown power. In his limited time in the minors, he's put up some crazy numbers. They are different hitters, but to me Holiday is the best hitter in the organization, and I don't think it's close.

Edited December 20, 2023 by CP0861

[Safelykept]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

The question I have is does O'Hearn have much in the way of trade value?

None What wed  pay for I think it was cash considerations + minor league signing Hes worth more than now but not much If Elias can find a Buyer that pays more than we did  GO get something done

[CP0861]

22 minutes ago, Safelykept said:

Plus he was the only one that hit Clean Up last year?

Lol. He usually DIDN'T hit clean up (35% of his PAs), but I was just going along with SportsFans emotionally fueled (and rather nonsensical) label of "clean up hitter"

Interestingly enough, Mountcastle hit .216 with a .567 OPS batting 4th.

But they won 101 games, so....I'm wrong.

Edited December 20, 2023 by CP0861

[btdart20]

6 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Who needs to be moved if Mayo is a 3B?   No one.

There are presuppositions to Mayo starting with no one moving- namely that Elias is either accelerating the Rookie Integration Plan, is prioritizing Mayo over all of the other prospects, and/or has secured the floor enough to raise the roof.

Mateo, Urias, Westburg, Ortiz, Holliday, and Mayo face some type of decision (even 'status quo' pushes a decision on others).  Those places could include more time at AAA, trades, being release, benched, or playing another position.  

5 hours ago, RZNJ said:

Mayo 3B, Henderson SS, Westburg 2B.  Urías and Mateo on bench.  Holliday to Norfolk.  Ortiz goes in the trade for the pitcher but it’s not like Ortiz has to be moved to open a spot for Mayo.

This scenario is one of a few options.  Ortiz is moved in a trade.  Holliday is moved to AAA.  Westburg, Urias and Mateo are moved to a lesser role/PAs/another position.  (In fairness, Mateo made that move in 2023.)

If we assume Gunnar's getting full-time PAs, then we have 5 guys for 2 starting positions.   IMO the only "locks" in the starting line-up are Gunnar, Adley, and Cedric.  After that point, we have many paths forward.

Mayo's debut boils down to the pace of the Rookie Integration Plan and trades.  

[forphase1]

1 hour ago, CP0861 said:

 I don't think Holliday NEEDS more time in the minors. They might/probably will send him down, but it will likely be for (a combination of) other reasons more than it will be developing his bat. His bat plays now.

Just to be clear, I never said that Holiday NEEDS more time in the minors.  Just that I think Mayo is more ready to face MLB pitching right now than Holiday is, largely due to the amount of at bats and performance by both at the AAA level.  

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Fielding matters.

Of course it does.  Never claimed otherwise. 

[CP0861]

59 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Just to be clear, I never said that Holiday NEEDS more time in the minors.  Just that I think Mayo is more ready to face MLB pitching right now than Holiday is, largely due to the amount of at bats and performance by both at the AAA level.  

We're clear, you didn't say that (I also didn't say that you did). I was responding to the "Mayo is more ready today" part. The difference in their AAA experience is less than 200 PAs.

In a do or die situation, today...right now, I'll take Holliday.  ST should be interesting.

[Billy F-Face3]

11 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Why does it matter that they are right handed?

 

Are you completely oblivious to baseball strategy?