Who begins the season as our "regular" 2B?

[Billy F-Face3]

2 hours ago, foxfield said:

Frazier?

 

 

ducks and runs. 

I choose Billy!

[ShoelesJoe]

Probably be Westburg unless he gets dealt before Spring Training. As much as I want Holliday to force his way on to the roster in March I think Elias will hold him back for a month to get the extra year. If Westburg is a trade piece in the next two months it'll tell us the FO is expecting Jackson to make the team out of ST. 

[TommyPickles]

9 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Does Urias? I don’t see Westburg having much less of an arm. 

Yes.

[jamalshw]

I fully expect a trade (or more) between now and then and that will largely tell us the answer. Ultimately, I expect Ortiz to the one of the focal points of any trade that comes to fruition. He's a very good prospect and I think if the Orioles were going to trade one of the guys ahead of him, we'd already have a new SP...I think Elias getting the best he can without moving Holliday, Basallo, Mayo, Kjerstad or Cowser is the difficulty and the hold up. 

So, I'm pulling Ortiz out of the contention for that reason. I'd love to believe that Holliday makes the Opening Day roster (and he might), but ultimately, my expectation is he starts the year in AAA. To me, that makes, Westburg, Henderson, and Urias as the most likely "starting" infield to open the year. Urias gets bumped for Holliday as soon as he's ready and Westburg probably goes to 3B with Holliday at 2B...but to open the year, I'll go Westburg. If you're asking May onward, Holliday is my guess. 

[AdamK]

Has it been established that Holliday isn't an option at 3rd? 

[interloper]

2 hours ago, AdamK said:

Has it been established that Holliday isn't an option at 3rd? 

During the winter meetings, Hyde said he would only play 2B and SS in spring training.

[Three Run Homer]

Westburg will start somewhere unless he is traded for a big arm.  I have a feeling Holliday is going to play well enough in spring training to force the issue.  Holliday will play 2B and Westburg will play 3B. 

Finding a new home for Urias and Mateo and getting a couple of bullpen arms or lower-level lottery tickets back has to be a priority for Elias this offseason--if both Urias and Mateo are on the opening day roster I think that would have to be considered a front office failure.  

[Sports Guy]

Part of me hopes it not Westburg. Not because I don’t want him here or think he should be the starter but to me, his value is equal to Cowser and Kjerstad and I would rather deal Westburg vs those 2.

[sportsfan8703]

Is Mayo underrated now?  All of this Holliday talk, which is warranted, but what about Mayo being the 3rd basemen and Westburg being at 2B?

With the makeup of our roster now, Holliday and Mayo are going to play a ton of ST games. Probably our starters for all of our road games.

I know we have a wall out there in LF, but Mayo is just about “ready” too. 

[interloper]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Is Mayo underrated now?  All of this Holliday talk, which is warranted, but what about Mayo being the 3rd basemen and Westburg being at 2B?

With the makeup of our roster now, Holliday and Mayo are going to play a ton of ST games. Probably our starters for all of our road games.

I know we have a wall out there in LF, but Mayo is just about “ready” too. 

He's ready with the bat but not defensively. God awful fielding percentage in the minors last year. No thank you. 

[maybenxtyr]

15 hours ago, Greg Pappas said:

So, Westburg voters... now that Westburg is well ahead in the poll, who plays 3B under this scenario?

If Mateo is still on the team he's going to probably playing SS against lefties pushing Henderson to 3b. I don't believe that they have kept Mateo to not play him.

[interloper]

1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:

If Mateo is still on the team he's going to probably playing SS against lefties pushing Henderson to 3b. I don't believe that they have kept Mateo to not play him.

I think they mostly kept him in the event of an Ortiz trade, honestly. Because while we do have a lot of infielders, only a few of them can handle SS regularly. 

[Tony-OH]

13 hours ago, Malike said:

Westburg doesn't have enough arm for 3rd base.

Would you say Urias has enough arm for 3B? Because they have almost identical numbers for arm strength.

Rk.	Player	Team	3B Throws	Max	Overall	2B/SS/3B	OF	1B	2B	3B	SS	LF	CF	RF
1	Gunnar Henderson		188	95.8	90.2	90.2	--	--	--	91.4	89.2	--	--	--
2	Ramón Urías		207	84.4	79.6	79.6	--	--	--	80.2	--	--	--	--
3	Jordan Westburg		59	84.5	80.2	80.2	--	--	76.1	--	--	--	--	--

Now, I would argue that both have well below average arms for 3B but Westburg has much better range and quickness. I'm not most realize how bad Urias was last year defensively as he took a major step backwards range wise and he doesn't have the arm to make up for it. 

Westburg probably fits best at 2B at wise, but he was actually a bit better at 3B than 2B last year in regards to OAA (2 OAA for 3B to -1 OAA for 2B). 

If both he and Ortiz are still in the org come opening day, I could see Westburg at 3B and Ortiz at 2B, especially if they decide to keep Holliday at AAA for a bit longer and they want to really work on Mayo in RF as speculated by Roch.

I don't see Urias having a role on this team next year and I still don't understand why he was tendered.

 

[interloper]

42 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Would you say Urias has enough arm for 3B? Because they have almost identical numbers for arm strength.

Rk.	Player	Team	3B Throws	Max	Overall	2B/SS/3B	OF	1B	2B	3B	SS	LF	CF	RF
1	Gunnar Henderson		188	95.8	90.2	90.2	--	--	--	91.4	89.2	--	--	--
2	Ramón Urías		207	84.4	79.6	79.6	--	--	--	80.2	--	--	--	--
3	Jordan Westburg		59	84.5	80.2	80.2	--	--	76.1	--	--	--	--	--

Now, I would argue that both have well below average arms for 3B but Westburg has much better range and quickness. I'm not most realize how bad Urias was last year defensively as he took a major step backwards range wise and he doesn't have the arm to make up for it. 

Westburg probably fits best at 2B at wise, but he was actually a bit better at 3B than 2B last year in regards to OAA (2 OAA for 3B to -1 OAA for 2B). 

If both he and Ortiz are still in the org come opening day, I could see Westburg at 3B and Ortiz at 2B, especially if they decide to keep Holliday at AAA for a bit longer and they want to really work on Mayo in RF as speculated by Roch.

I don't see Urias having a role on this team next year and I still don't understand why he was tendered.

 

Urias was basically injured all year. A lot of nagging stuff, hamstring injury early in the year and basically was never the same after that. I would bet on him being much better defensively this year if he's fully healthy. 

Regarding the tender decision, I don't think you just let a positive WAR player like that walk. He's a year removed from a 3.6 WAR season, was injured last year, has at least a little trade value, and is great insurance if some of your young guys are traded or injured. It's just buying time on making a decision. You can still decide to trade him or he's a utility guy if Ortiz is traded. 

Edited January 4 by interloper

[Tony-OH]

40 minutes ago, interloper said:

Urias was basically injured all year. A lot of nagging stuff, hamstring injury early in the year and basically was never the same after that. I would bet on him being much better defensively this year if he's fully healthy. 

Perhaps, but Urias will play at 30-years old next year and if Ortiz and Westburg are still here next year, I just don't see a role for him on the team. Mateo can back up SS, play CF, and is a weapon as a pinch runner late in games. He makes sense in an utility role. 

Westburg, Gunnar and Ortiz can all play 3B and there is still Mayo to contend with at the hot corner. Westburg and Ortiz can play 2B and there's still Norby and Holliday to contend with at 2B. 

I think Urias will come into camp as a break glass in case of emergency if Westburg and Ortiz are still here. I think he's been the backup plan in case one of them were traded this offseason.