Orioles may have sleeve advertisement deal in place.

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s a lot, but I doubt it’s half a billion.  For one thing, they lost money during the pandemic year.  Forbes had them with operating income of $67 mm last year, and looking at their chart of year-by-year, it looks like about $200 mm from 2019-22.   

Now, Forbes’ numbers are only estimates, and operating income is a slightly different measure than profit.  But it’s still the best thing we have available.  
 

 I know baseball has perfected the art of hide the potato. 

 

Here’s what we know ….. they got 52% of the local revenue. I assume that includes MASN Money, Gates, Concessions (which we know were on the rise), sponsorships, ETC. 
 

Below is our share of $200 million annually for revenue sharing and national tv money. That’s not counting luxury tax payments.

So … let’s assume …. In 2023 we had just under $10,000,000 in dead salaries that made the payroll just under $76 Million. 
 

Forbes (2022) has our revenue at $264 million, operating income at $67 million, and gate receipts of $45 million. Obviously 2023 was more  and we had playoff revenue as well. These 3 numbers are different pots of money as it contradicts the information that every team is getting $200 million from the pot. 
 

So if operating income and gate receipts are the $67 and $45 million. How much was the MASN contribution? Im certain that MLB isn’t allowing that number to be zero. Even so …let’s assume it’s $67 million. That $112 million in 2022 so they get just over half or $58 million ish. 
 

Then they had $258 million …. And that’s not counting any cooking of the books that all businesses do to hide revenues from the tax man. I believe they lost money in the pandemic shortened season. 
 

Found the 2023 numbers revenue $264 million, $67 Million , and $45 million. 
 

Hard to believe we only had a $6 million increase locally with 2 playoff games and increased attendance this season over last.

2022 Attendance 1,368,367  (per ESPN)

2023 Attendance 1,936,798 (per ESPN)

 

So 570,000 ish more fans. …. I’m not sure I buy the $52 per fan either. We spent more than $100 on a few beers each, some fries, hot dogs, and parking. That’s beyond the Terrace box seat price. 

 

I’d argue they are stuffing away more than $100 million this year and likely last season as well. And we had years 2021 in the $44 million range. 

 

Quote

Under the new collective bargaining agreement (CBA) negotiated in 2022, each MLB team pools 48 per cent of local revenues with the total amount split equally between all 30 teams. This results in each team taking in 3.3 per cent of the total—an estimated $110 million USD, if not more. Teams also receive a share of national revenues, totalling around $90 million USD per team. The goal of revenue sharing is to allow small market teams to compete with big market teams like the New York Yankees and the Los Angeles Dodgers that bring in more money from ticket sales and merchandise. However, nutting has inspired many teams to exploit loopholes in this system, pushing revenue sharing money into other areas without improving their on-field product by increasing payroll.

 

 

 

https://www.thetribune.ca/sports/mlb/#:~:text=Under the new collective bargaining,million USD%2C if not more

[Sports Guy]

9 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

You know they won’t. This is going to JA’s pocket. 

Yea I know.  The ads don’t bother me at all. I know some people want the keep the tradition but whatever.  That said, the revenue generated from it should go back into the team.

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It’s a lot, but I doubt it’s half a billion.  For one thing, they lost money during the pandemic year.  Forbes had them with operating income of $67 mm last year, and looking at their chart of year-by-year, it looks like about $200 mm from 2019-22.   

Now, Forbes’ numbers are only estimates, and operating income is a slightly different measure than profit.  But it’s still the best thing we have available.  
 

It is all we have but my big question has always been corporate income (think Ohtani) which Forbes must lump into the "brand" portion.  When comparing NYM/NYY which is the same market size brand is off  as it should be but I have no clue how they have access to those numbers.  I've been involved as both a sponsor and working for a franchise and those numbers are not simply not shared or otherwise made available for competitive reasons.  Vendors likewise don't share what they spend with the Ravens/Orioles or Nats/Orioles again for competive reasons.  I think the Forbes valuations are great for comparison sake but question whether they are truly accurate in capturing true income and expenses.    

[waroriole]

Obviously none of this will ever be spent on the team. I didn’t realize sponsorship deals were so high now. I was initially very skeptical seeing the amount but the Yankees got 25M per and Red Sox 18. What if we let them sponsor a contract for a SP?

That T Rowe Price contract for Blake Snell really worked out in ‘24 and ‘25, as the O’s win the World Series. 

[Frobby]

44 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

 

 

Forbes (2022) has our revenue at $264 million, operating income at $67 million, and gate receipts of $45 million. Obviously 2023 was more  and we had playoff revenue as well. These 3 numbers are different pots of money as it contradicts the information that every team is getting $200 million from the pot. 
 

So if operating income and gate receipts are the $67 and $45 million. How much was the MASN contribution? Im certain that MLB isn’t allowing that number to be zero. Even so …let’s assume it’s $67 million. That $112 million in 2022 so they get just over half or $58 million ish. 
 

Then they had $258 million …. And that’s not counting any cooking of the books that all businesses do to hide revenues from the tax man. I believe they lost money in the pandemic shortened season. 
 

Found the 2023 numbers revenue $264 million, $67 Million , and $45 million. 
 

Hard to believe we only had a $6 million increase locally with 2 playoff games and increased attendance this season over last.

2022 Attendance 1,368,367  (per ESPN)

2023 Attendance 1,936,798 (per ESPN)

 

So 570,000 ish more fans. …. I’m not sure I buy the $52 per fan either. We spent more than $100 on a few beers each, some fries, hot dogs, and parking. That’s beyond the Terrace box seat price. 

 

I’d argue they are stuffing away more than $100 million this year and likely last season as well. And we had years 2021 in the $44 million range.

1.  The rights fees paid by MASN are included in Forbes’ numbers, and are included in revenue starting.  The profits made by MASN after paying the rights fees and other expenses are not included and are not shared.  It’s not a big number, something like $12-15 mm.

2.  I don’t know where you are getting 2023 numbers from.  Those look like Forbes’ pre-season list numbers, which actually relate to 2022 even though published in 2023.

I agree with you that the O’s revenue was up substantially in 2023 for the reasons you gave.  Don’t forget though that payroll also was up substantially.  Per BB-ref, payroll was up by nearly $35 mm over 2022.  We’ll see what Forbes estimates when it drops its 2023 numbers sometime in March.  

[Tony-OH]

15 hours ago, Jagwar said:

Hoping for this

 

That's exactly the kind of bush league crap I think about when I start hearing about things like this. Don't get me wrong, that's a ridiculous sum of money for a corporation to give for a stupid patch on a uniform, so its hard to turn that down, but I hate this idea and will never support any company that intrudes on my sports like this. 

Maybe it would be nice if we knew that money would go into dropping ticket prices or actually signing a player like Gunnar to a 10-year contract (yes I know it would take way more than $75 for that)?

Some how I get this impression ticket prices and concessions will still rise, but John Angelos will get another high rise condo in Nashville!

So we'll get to look at a Chico Bail Bonds advertisement on the Orioles uniforms and get nothing out of it as fans!

 

[Frobby]

11 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

It is all we have but my big question has always been corporate income (think Ohtani) which Forbes must lump into the "brand" portion.  When comparing NYM/NYY which is the same market size brand is off  as it should be but I have no clue how they have access to those numbers.  I've been involved as both a sponsor and working for a franchise and those numbers are not simply not shared or otherwise made available for competitive reasons.  Vendors likewise don't share what they spend with the Ravens/Orioles or Nats/Orioles again for competive reasons.  I think the Forbes valuations are great for comparison sake but question whether they are truly accurate in capturing true income and expenses.    

Sure, I think that’s fair.  I just don’t have anything better to use.  

[InsideCoroner]

I get the feeling that for 5/100, JA would probably agree to a “Yankees rule!”patch on the unis. 

[SemperFi]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

That’s a crapload of money.   

I don't think that is simply for the patch it's likely all encompassing-stadium signage, behind plate signage, tv mentions, suites, tickets, things like RBI program.  The Astros get @25m from Oxy but it includes an awful lot more than the patch.

[Just Regular]

I will give the org credit so far that in the great atomization of the game's elements to maximize revenue they haven't sold the ballpark name yet.

I just hope none of the guys have a Michael Jordan Nike/Reebok kind of situation where they sponsor say Fidelity or Principal.     It could be a tough wear, especially if its Hays and he has a bumpy Arb hearing.

[Osornot]

The only good I see from all of this is that it replaced the Cease on the top of my feed.  As far as financials I tend to believe that it is all smoke and mirrors with weaving octopus arms.  Most likely, sports franchise value is in the branding value and rich guys showing their "size" to their rich guy friends at the country club.  Plus, there are many other things but I digress.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

1.  The rights fees paid by MASN are included in Forbes’ numbers, and are included in revenue starting.  The profits made by MASN after paying the rights fees and other expenses are not included and are not shared.  It’s not a big number, something like $12-15 mm.

2.  I don’t know where you are getting 2023 numbers from.  Those look like Forbes’ pre-season list numbers, which actually relate to 2022 even though published in 2023.

I agree with you that the O’s revenue was up substantially in 2023 for the reasons you gave.  Don’t forget though that payroll also was up substantially.  Per BB-ref, payroll was up by nearly $35 mm over 2022.  We’ll see what Forbes estimates when it drops its 2023 numbers sometime in March.  

Sorry …. It was March 2022 and 2023. There should be a considerable uptick in local revenues.

Either way they should be able to cover the operating expenses and leave the $200 to be used on payroll 

[Moose Milligan]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

but I hate this idea and will never support any company that intrudes on my sports like this. 

 

 

That sums it up for me.  I don’t know what a company like T Rowe Price expects to get for patches on sleeves when it comes to revenue generation but it’s a turnoff. 

[Orange]

I’m just glad it’s a Baltimore company. I’d be cool with Dap, McCormick, Domino, et al.