Once Holliday graduates, the SS depth in the system looks pretty thin

[clapdiddy]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

More like once Holliday arrives we'll have 5 guys capable of playing SS on the 26 man roster.  MILB depth doesn't matter when you have that.  We're covered through 2031 at the MLB level.  

Exactly.   It gives the really young guys plenty of time to develop.   I'm sure there are a few shortstops that will be available in the draft this year as well.

[interloper]

14 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

More like once Holliday arrives we'll have 5 guys capable of playing SS on the 26 man roster.  MILB depth doesn't matter when you have that.  We're covered through 2031 at the MLB level.  

Sure, I never said anything otherwise.

I disagree that MiLB depth doesn't matter though. Of course it always does. That's how you maintain a winning organization. But the SS depth in the minors won't be any kind of short or long-term problem for the O's. 

Edited February 5 by interloper

[interloper]

Man it's really tough to post a thread and have people just read it how they want instead of how you wrote it. 

[Sanity Check]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

Man it's really tough to post a thread and have people just read it how they want instead of how you wrote it. 

I think many read what they wanted to read, and assumed you thought we had a problem.  A better thread might be, Who will get the higher WAR this year, Ortiz or Holliday?  I won't start that one....but I'm sure there are many folks who absolutely know the answer and are willing to share it with us.

[forphase1]

20 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

I have heard different definition of what "the pipeline" means. I agree that it is important to supplement the talent of the Big League roster with Minor League talent. I just believe that what is more important is the Major League team and the results achieved even if that means sacrificing some Minor League talent. 

HOU has ZERO top 100 prospects right now. But I am sure that they are quite content with the World Series banners and appearances that they have had in the last fe years. If in 5 years, we have 2 rings and only 1 to 2 top 100 prospects, I will be more than okay with that.

Maybe.  I want to see a dynasty built, not just a good 5 year run.   From '66 to '83, the Os were a model of consistency and great baseball.   I'd love to see that return.  Part of that success was having young guys ready to step up when others got too old,  were traded or signed elsewhere.  Now I'm far from worried about the SS situation in the minors as we are set for the next handful of years.   But to act like the farm system isn't something we should still think about or be concerned with isn't true.  It's the long term life blood of the franchise.  Your choice of Houston is a great example.  They had an awesome run that I'd love for us to replicate.  But at the same time it's looking like their window is starting to close and they don't seem to have the talent in the minors to keep it open.  If we can I want BOTH the mlb success AND a well stocked farm system to build a true dynasty, not just a good 5 year run. 

[Sanity Check]

I also agree with anyone who believes that we will draft more shortstops for the mere fact that Elias likes athletes up the middle, even if they don't stick at short.  And of course, the hitting tool also matters to Elias, but athleticism and versatility are key in his decision making when it comes to position players.

[deward]

51 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

If we have 2/3/4 players who can play SS at high to decent level on the Big League club, what is the depth needed for? 

It appears that some fans are going through this struggle to accept that the results of the Major League team are much more of a priority now and going forward for the foreseeable future than prospect rankings, system depth, etc.

Personally, I would rather have the most talent in the org be on the Orioles than in the Minor Leagues. But I respect the fact that for so long, prospects and following the Minor Leagues is all we had to be excited for and it is going to take some fans time to make the switch.

 

I don't really get the patronizing tone of this reaction (and a few others like it that I've been seeing lately). I took the original post as an observation, not a lamentation; he literally ended it by saying it was a positive development. It's ok to want a strong big league roster AND a deep farm system. And it's ok to point out areas where the minor league depth is now thin. If you prefer to no longer think about the minor league system now that the big league team is good, that's certainly your prerogative, but some of us enjoy this side of it too. I don't think that means anyone here is struggling to "accept that the results of the Major League team are much more of a priority".

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Maybe.  I want to see a dynasty built, not just a good 5 year run.   From '66 to '83, the Os were a model of consistency and great baseball.   I'd love to see that return.  Part of that success was having young guys ready to step up when others got too old,  were traded or signed elsewhere.  Now I'm far from worried about the SS situation in the minors as we are set for the next handful of years.   But to act like the farm system isn't something we should still think about or be concerned with isn't true.  It's the long term life blood of the franchise.  Your choice of Houston is a great example.  They had an awesome run that I'd love for us to replicate.  But at the same time it's looking like their window is starting to close and they don't seem to have the talent in the minors to keep it open.  If we can I want BOTH the mlb success AND a well stocked farm system to build a true dynasty, not just a good 5 year run. 

I wouldn’t really call what Houston has done a “good 5 year run.”  Nine straight winning seasons that have included 8 playoff appearances, two WS titles, three WS appearances, 6 ALCS appearances, 6 division titles and 4 100-win seasons.   I’d take that in a heartbeat!

Edited February 5 by Frobby

[forphase1]

Just now, Frobby said:

I wouldn’t really call what Houston has done a “good 5 year run.”  Nine straight winning seasons that have included 8 playoff appearances, three WS appearances, 6 ALCS appearances, 6 division titles and 4 100-win seasons.   I’d take that in a heartbeat!

I'm sure we all would!  I'd just hope at the end of it we were better able to continue building on that success than what it appears Houston will be able to do based on their current status as their farm system. 

[forphase1]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wouldn’t really call what Houston has done a “good 5 year run.”  Nine straight winning seasons that have included 8 playoff appearances, three WS appearances, 6 ALCS appearances, 6 division titles and 4 100-win seasons.   I’d take that in a heartbeat!

Also I wasn't calling Houston just a good 5 year run,  bur re-reading I can see how it was taken that way.   I was more thinking about the next 5 years that we likely have Adley and Gunnar both. 

[Spy Fox]

I'll count Houston out when their results give me a reason to do so. As of now they have been to the ALCS in seven straight seasons and still have a very strong team.

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I'm sure we all would!  I'd just hope at the end of it we were better able to continue building on that success than what it appears Houston will be able to do based on their current status as their farm system. 

Let’s just say if that was the trade-off, I’d take it.  I have no interest in a run like we had in 2012-16, but nine years like the Astros just had would be worth a crash landing if that’s how it had to be.  Of course, I’d prefer to avoid the crash landing.  

[forphase1]

20 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Let’s just say if that was the trade-off, I’d take it.  I have no interest in a run like we had in 2012-16, but nine years like the Astros just had would be worth a crash landing if that’s how it had to be.  Of course, I’d prefer to avoid the crash landing.  

Oh, I don't disagree.  Flags fly forever and all of that.  I was only 7 when we won it all in 1983, and I'd absolutely LOVE too see us win it all again, even if it meant some lean years subsequently.  But of course I'd rather see sustained, decade+ of success, and to achieve that we need a vibrant farm system putting out MLB talent to fill in holes in the MLB team, either by promotion or trades.  Not having any top 100 talent isn't exactly a badge of honor for the Astros.  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

Oh, I don't disagree.  Flags fly forever and all of that.  I was only 7 when we won it all in 1983, and I'd absolutely LOVE too see us win it all again, even if it meant some lean years subsequently.  But of course I'd rather see sustained, decade+ of success, and to achieve that we need a vibrant farm system putting out MLB talent to fill in holes in the MLB team, either by promotion or trades.  Not having any top 100 talent isn't exactly a badge of honor for the Astros.  

I am not an extreme “flags fly forever” guy.  I’d rather have Tampa’s last 16 years than Kansas City’s.  But two flags and a really dominant 9 year run?  I’d be willing to live through some down years for that.   And while I agree the Astros’ run may end soon, I’ll bet they don’t crash all that hard, in comparison with our last crash.  

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, interloper said:

Don't think anyone is necessarily expecting more from the SS position at this point. We're set for 6 years with 3 young guys who can handle the position at the big league level.

What I do expect is for them to target SS near the top of their draft if it makes sense to and of course internationally. But they will go best player available if there's nothing interesting there from the SS position. Elias will want to continue having a balanced farm, even if it's not as insanely good as it was in the rebuild. 

I can’t argue with Elias approach to the draft. But I don’t think the farm is balanced at all. We are very position player rich and very pitching poor in terms of prospects (as proof look at our top 100 guys). 

However, as long as he is willing to deal from our over abundance in order to acquire impact pitching for the Big League team, I am fine with his draft strategy/approach. BPA seems to be working out quite well.