Jackson Holliday 2024

[accinfo]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

I mean, it's not out of the question that Holliday could develop into a better hitter than Henderson OBP wise and average wise, but I doubt he's ever going to hit for the same power nor will he bring the same defensive value while he stays on the dirt.

Jackson is going to end up a very good MLB baseball player. 

 

I don’t think many players are going to hit for the power Gunnar is going to do.  This young man is special.

[OnlyOneOriole]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

That's just not accurate and it's a poor post.

Everyone that hits homeruns doesn't have a near 400 OBP.

He got on base at an elite level, he didn't just do one thing well.

Kinda sad you couldn't admit to the wrong statement.

I mean, I grew up in MI my entire life until 12 years ago.  My entire family and friends were Tiger fans including my twin brother.  That is pretty much all we watched baseball wise growing up as a kid. 

I think I have a pretty good idea who Prince Fielder (and his dad) was. 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Yep.  Now, I do agree with Tony talking about the twitchiness but that is also more important in football and basketball than it is baseball.

Just wanted to clear up once again I meant that explosive "1st step twitchiness" is what I did not see from Jackson while playing SS. Just want it on record that I've said multiple times that Holliday is an excellent athlete. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

I mean, I grew up in MI my entire life until 12 years ago.  My entire family and friends were Tiger fans including my twin brother.  That is pretty much all we watched baseball wise growing up as a kid. 

I think I have a pretty good idea who Prince Fielder (and his dad) was. 

I'll say it again.

If you have a career OBP of 382 you are exhibiting a skill at a high level.

We were just marveling at Tony Gwynn earlier, his career OBP is 388.

The ability to get on base....not make outs...is a skill and Fielder was very good at it.

[Tony-OH]

15 minutes ago, Malike said:

I'm curious as to how people who get paid tons of money to evaluate talent all say that Holliday is an elite athlete, 5 tool guy and some rando on a message board says, "he's not elite bruh" and when people push back you act like someone slapped your mother. Sorry, your opinion is just that, your opinion and you're basically the only person who thinks you are right out of every professional who is paid to evaluate this stuff.

Most evaluators don't get paid "tons of money" unless you are talking about Elias and Sig. Second, Holliday is not a five tool player because his arm is below average. Now, could it be because his elbow has been bothering him for awhile, perhaps, but no evaluator would have watched Jackson here or in the minors and said he was a five-tool player. 

Let's stay away from the personal attacks too.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Most evaluators don't get paid "tons of money" unless you are talking about Elias and Sig. Second, Holliday is not a five tool player because his arm is below average. Now, could it be because his elbow has been bothering him for awhile, perhaps, but no evaluator would have watched Jackson here or in the minors and said he was a five-tool player. 

Let's stay away from the personal attacks too.

They tend to say four tool guys are five tool a lot.

Like they used to say Manny was five tool when he really didn't have high end speed.

[Moose Milligan]

15 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Based on how he is playing so far in AAA?   Yes.  He hasn't exactly been tearing it up.  As far as his time here with the Os?

I will give you 3 specific examples of why I now have this opinion.

1.  The very first difficult play I saw that he needed to make.  A pop up into shallow center that he ran out for and called others off?  He looked like a player who has no athletic ability at all.  He stumbled and bumbled and fumbled it all to hell.  Manny he was not. 

2.  His yips throwing to first base from 20 feet away.  As a 20 year old.....that is unheard of.  That is something a 34 year old war horse vet does who suddenly lost confidence.   Or a golfer.  Not a cocky brash 20 year old.  Watch Gunnar throw.  He slings it. From any position.  Why?  He is super confident in his athletic ability to make the play.  JH looked like he has no confidence whatsoever. 

3.  He stepps towards first base and away from almost every pitch he faced in the majors.  You know who does that?  Players who are scared.  Not confident.  Players who have no idea what they are doing.   He swung and missed, and I don't mean just missed but 10/10 misses...so many times I lost count.  He honestly looked like a little kid playing against grown men.

He's 20 years old.

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Most evaluators don't get paid "tons of money" unless you are talking about Elias and Sig. Second, Holliday is not a five tool player because his arm is below average. Now, could it be because his elbow has been bothering him for awhile, perhaps, but no evaluator would have watched Jackson here or in the minors and said he was a five-tool player. 

Let's stay away from the personal attacks too.

Who did I personally attack? Find one "real" evaluator who thinks Holliday isn't an elite athlete, I can wait. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Just wanted to clear up once again I meant that explosive "1st step twitchiness" is what I did not see from Jackson while playing SS. Just want it on record that I've said multiple times that Holliday is an excellent athlete. 

 

Yea I gotcha. And I get what you mean there. I still think he can overcome that and improve on it. 
 

To me, my main point about Holliday is just that he’s so young and so many things can happen over the next few years to determine his path. He gets dissected so much because of his #1 prospect status but I have yet to read anyone that is “down” on him since his first stint. 
 

But it seems like many (not say you are) Os fans are down on him and it’s an irrational thought process.

[Tony-OH]

Everyone needs to stay away from the personal attacks while debating. While you may like or not like another poster, at the end of the day, if you choose to engage with them do it on the merits of the statements, not on the person.

Also, let's stick to the subject at hand in these posts. 

Lastly, there is a ignore feature if someone bothers you. I recommend using it if it's going cause you to attack someone personally. 

I've seen people with "strong opinions" on here but they don't break the rules. If you believe they break a rule, feel free to report the post so we can evaluate and take action if needed.

Of note though, do not report someone because you just don't like them or their post. They have to break a rule.

There's room for many personalities and opinions on this board. Let's remember that the differences is what makes it more entertaining.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

21 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

His career OBP was .382.  His OBP was 99 points higher than his batting average. 

 

18 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Because he hit home runs.  Period.

That's...not how OBP works.

 

[OriolesUpAndDowns]

I think Holliday will end up a very good major league player that will make a few All Star teams. He will be a top 5 2nd baseman for most of his time with the Orioles before he leaves and signs with a big market team.  
 

 Will he be an MVP candidate?  Probably not but a very select few players are perennial mvp contenders.

 

 

[RZNJ]

All this Holliday talk made me think of Greg Jeffries.   Who remembers the Mets minor league SS phenom who tore through A and AA, debuted at 20, had a nice long career?

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeffegr01.shtml

 

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

He's 20 years old.

So was Manny.  So was Gunnar.  So were other great players.  They all flashed at that age. 

 

For a guy like JH who has been trained to play baseball his entire life?

 

He looked bad.

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Everyone needs to stay away from the personal attacks while debating. While you may like a like another poster, at the end of the day, if you choose to engage with them do it on the merits of the statements, not on the person.

Also, let's stick to the subject at hand in these posts. 

Lastly, there is a ignore feature if someone bothers you. I recommend using it if it's going cause you to attack someone personally. 

I've seen people with "strong opinions" on here but they don't break the rules. If you believe they break a rule, feel free to report the post so we can evaluate and take action if needed.

Of note though, do not report someone because you just don't like them or their post. They have to break a rule.

There's room for many personalities and opinions on this board. Let's remember that the differences is what makes it more entertaining.

GREAT POST.