Jackson Holliday 2024

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

I meant to say Holliday in my prior post BTW.

You can't just give a cursory node to bad isn't equal, but still bad' bad.

Those gradations of bad mean quite a lot in a case like this imo.

Cowser looked the worst out of all of them when he first came up, and he still was a significant level upon what Holliday has done so far.

Go look at the batted ball stats posted above.  They're awful.  They make Hays, who has been terrible this season, look like Babe Ruth.

Holliday is striking out over 50% of the time, and he's hit like one ball well in 30+ PAs.  Cowser was at least walking last season.

Now, I'm not sending him down yet- although he wouldn't be up yet either if I was in control.  But I said a few days ago I'd give him another 25-50 PAs before I sent him down, if he shows no improvement.

We're only like 8 Abs into that, but he hasn't shown any improvement either.

Yawn

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

4 minutes ago, InsideCoroner said:

I’m all for giving Holliday another 10-15 starts to turn things around. He hasn’t cost us any games yet, just a few runs in situational hitting, and the team has been winning.

But you can’t remotely compare him to Gunnar. Even at the end of last May with his struggles, Gunnar had a .330 OBP and an OPS of .700. That’s a world of difference from a .108 OPS.

I think Holliday will turn it around, but Gunnar was never that overmatched. 

 

Gunnar and Machado both played in at least 219 MILB games before getting called up while Jackson played in 155 MILB games.

I think Jackson will work it out eventually, but if we get to the first couple weeks of May without any noticeable improvement then it's time to let him work it out at Norfolk.

[baltfan]

10 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

He can revamp his swing and figure out his problems in Baltimore. 

Mullins didn’t.  Cowser didn ‘t.  This team is in win now mode. If there are guys better than him now, they need a chance.  That would include if he is still struggling in a couple of weeks Norby. 

[Sports Guy]

Just now, baltfan said:

Mullins didn’t.  Cowser didn ‘t.  This team is in win now mode. If there are guys better than him now, they need a chance.  That would include if he is still struggling in a couple of weeks Norby. 

If only the team were winning now…

[baltfan]

24 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure…Gunnar sat vs some lefties too.  I can see that. That’s fine.

Holliday is hitting worse against righties than Gunnar was at his worst against lefties. 

[Dunk35]

45 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

My question to the folks that want to see him back in AAA is, what happens if he goes down and hits, but gets called back up and struggles again? 

 

That is Mike Elias problem. We are trying to win ball games and a World Series this year. I would hope we play our best 9 going forward, whoever that becomes. 

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

If only the team were winning now…

How much longer would you let him go at this rate before you sent him down?

[DirtyBird]

7 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Mullins didn’t.  Cowser didn ‘t.  This team is in win now mode. If there are guys better than him now, they need a chance.  That would include if he is still struggling in a couple of weeks Norby. 

It is actually in “win in October” mode.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, baltfan said:

How much longer would you let him go at this rate before you sent him down?

I’m not considering it for at least another 1-2 weeks of this level of futility.

 

[baltfan]

1 minute ago, DirtyBird said:

It is actually in “win in October” mode.

Yes but you have to get there.  And sometimes sending a guy down does wonders.  There was a guy with the Jays with a similar last name that got sent down to AA and then became a HOF pitcher.  

[baltfan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

I’m not considering it for at least another 1-2 weeks of this level of futility.

 

I don’t think there is hardly anyone here that would call that an unreasonable position. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

It is actually in “win in October” mode.

And Holliday will be our best chance to win in October…

[24fps]

How is being sent down at this point going to be viewed as anything but utter failure and how is that going to help his confidence?  With all the fanfare that came with his call up, the genie is out of the bottle, so enough with the psychology.  If Holliday gets sent down, it should be to improve on identified problems and it should be with his complete buy-in.  There should be enough observational data pretty soon to start isolating areas a little more precisely than "oh, he just looks lost..."

But you know what worries me the most?  I'm worried that Holliday is getting conflicting opinions from his dad and the coaching staff right now.  That's a whole different level of complicated.

Edited April 22 by 24fps

[Frobby]

42 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

 

 

 

Gunnar was a sub 200 hitter in late May last year and had a 6-37 stretch from late April to early May with 11 Ks.

Is that as bad?  No. Is it still awful?  Did he still look overmatched?  Yes he did.

So yes, their sh!t was a better smelling sh!t but it was still garbage…and that was after Gunnar had more ML playing time.

Honestly, this is one of the weakest arguments I’ve ever heard from you.   After day 3 of the season, Gunnar never had an OPS below .583.  If you don’t think that’s different in kind from .137 (which is Holliday’s high water mark so far), I don’t know what to tell you.  

I’m not down on Holliday long term, but this is as bad as it can possibly be.   I hope he does better in the Angels series, but if it doesn’t (which is a low bar to hurdle), I’d have someone else on the roster on Friday.  
 

Edited April 22 by Frobby

[DirtyBird]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

Honestly, this is one of the weakest arguments I’ve ever heard from you.   After day 3 of the season, Gunnar never had an OPS of .583.  If you don’t think that’s different in kind from .137 (which is Holliday’s high water mark so far), I don’t know what to tell you.  

I’m not f down on Holliday long term, but this is as bad as it can possibly be.   I hope he does better in the Angels series, but if it doesn’t (which is a low bar to hurdle), I’d have someone else on the roster on Friday.  
 

He won’t play much in the Angels series.

And there is no way they demote him in the middle of a CA road trip prior to facing Oakland.

Edited April 22 by DirtyBird